[DarrenE]

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[lalldonn]

What is last train when it's above our suit supposed to be? Anyway I bid rkc.

[masse24]

I am no expert, but, Pass is out of the question.

Any response to RKCB should be safe, (hope to hear 5♥/♠). Gotta go...

[kenrexford]

lalldonn, on 2012-October-15, 17:53, said:

What is last train when it's above our suit supposed to be? Anyway I bid rkc.

I call that Train Has Left, which is a request to either ask or answer, depending upon some issue. For example, ask with a void but answer with a stiff. Something like that.

[PhilKing]

I ask for kings - MZB (Medium Zooming Blackwood). Hopefully pard has at least four. Then I will check on aces.

[CSGibson]

So partner is 14+ but unlimited? I think you should be forced to the 5 level if suit agreement was made at the 4 level (ie, 4H should be forcing).

[SteveMoe]

4♠ inviting partner bid RKB or controls. Not interpret 4♠ as Last Train. We are likely safe at 5 level. Risk (tho small) appears partner is ♠K ♥KQ ♦K ♣QJ.

[P_Marlowe]

Pass is out, we have 30+, responder did not limit his hand to at most 14HCP,
he showed 14+, we have a 8 card fit, and have lots of controls.

The only downside maybe, that partner seems to hold a bal. shape, i.e. we will
need HCP power to make it.

I would go with 5H, which I play as a quant. invite, RKCB wont help, we will have
the key cards, we need to know, if partner is min or if he has something to spare.
The only downside of 5H is, that we may miss a Grand.

4S should be a cue, indicating a void, since otherwise we would be able to bid 4NT.

With kind regards
Marlwoe

[gnasher]

Wouldn't 4♣ or 4♦ by partner have been a cue-bid? If the failure to cue-bid shows an unsuitable hand, we should pass. He won't have what we need, and it would be silly to get to the five-leve opposite Kxx KQxx Kx QJxx or Kx Qxxx KJx KQxx.

[Fluffy]

If we consider pass at this point then we should had bid 3NT the round before and let parnter bid. I would just move on, I would prefer a general slam try such as 5♥ (or 4♠ if you have it) than blackwood, we have too much values on pointed suits, with these AQs slam is often 50% or very poor due to trump quality.

[bluecalm]

Quote

Pass is out, we have 30+, responder did not limit his hand to at most 14HCP,
he showed 14+, we have a 8 card fit, and have lots of controls.

He limited his hand to super minimum (in 14+ range) by bidding 4H.

Quote

4S should be a cue, indicating a void, since otherwise we would be able to bid 4NT.

We also bid cues when we are missing controls and/or are unsure about our combined assets being enough for a slam.

I would pass I think partner shouldn't bid 4H with any hand which makes slam good opposite what we have.
4S is an option if 4H has wider range than I think it should have. RKC is judgement blunder imo. Not only we are not strong enough to force slam (which we should be if we use RKC) but we are also missing club control and partner very likely doesn't have it either for his negative 4H bid. If he does have it along with decent hand (Kx KQxx Jx KQxxx) RKC won't solve our problems anyway.

[twoshy]

Thank you gnasher and bluecalm, I was going crazy reading the earlier responses. This is a pass in my sleep. Our stacked rounded suits are opposite five of partner's cards and we know that partner's values are scattered and soft rather than sharp and concentrated.

[twoshy]

Fluffy, on 2012-October-16, 02:29, said:

If we consider pass at this point then we should had bid 3NT the round before and let parnter bid. I would just move on, I would prefer a general slam try such as 5♥ (or 4♠ if you have it) than blackwood, we have too much values on pointed suits, with these AQs slam is often 50% or very poor due to trump quality.

Also, why would we bid 3NT before? We got the crucial information that partner has a bad minimum. What else would 4♣ and 4♦ be other than cuebids agreeing ♥?

[Zelandakh]

This is the kind of thing that happens when you start describing your shape at the 3 level. It seems to me that with both hands unlimited, the 4m cues should be obligatory with a heart fit. That being the case, we would have an obvious pass now without a club control. An alternative would be for 4♣ to show a minimum (Frivolous) and 4♦/4♥/4♠ to show serious slam interest and a diamond/club/spade control respectively. In short, my view is that this is not an expert level judgement decision but rather an expert level bidding theory discussion. I suspect that almost any expert level bidding system would not have a serious problem with the hands (will judge that when we see partner's hand after the discussion).

[Zelandakh]

I swear I only clicked Post once, lol.

[Zelandakh]

*sigh*

[phil_20686]

I would drive 6H here. Partner has some minimal 14 count with 4 hearts and four clubs, but we have a really nice 17 count. Kxx KQxx xx KQxx makes slam very good.

I too believe that four level cues should be obligatory on this sequence.

[gnasher]

Fluffy, on 2012-October-16, 02:29, said:

If we consider pass at this point then we should had bid 3NT the round before and let parnter bid.

Why? It's not inconsistent to bid 3♥, planning to cooperate opposite a 4♣ cue-bid, pass a 4♥ signoff, and invite in notrumps opposite 3♠ or 3NT.

[bluecalm]

Quote

If we consider pass at this point then we should had bid 3NT the round before and let parnter bid.

Partner is unlimited and has 4 clubs. 4-4 heart fit will often provide 12th or 13th trick (club ruff) so we gotta show hearts.

[Fluffy]

4♣ is natural 5 card, not a cuebid. 4♦ is the only cuebid avaible.