[ArtK78]

Playing matchpoints with my regular partner, we conspired to produced the following auction (2/1 game forcing except when responder rebids his suit):

1♦ - 1♥
2♣ - 3NT
4♥ - ?

Question: What does 4NT mean over 4♥?

For now, I will not present the hands, as they would poison the discussion.

Thanks.

[dake50]

First, tell me what 4S over 4H means.
Or for that matter 5C,5D,5H?
Now I can be sure 4NT isn't the same thing, but redundant.
I like 4NT as general Q-bid, up-looking unless partner passes.
I suspect this is a minority view.

[TylerE]

Sometimes, like here, 4NT is just RKC.

If responder had any interest in a slow cuebiddy auction, he should have rebid 2♠ 4SF and then they can find the heart fit and start cuebidding.

To me, cuebidding is not something you can back in to - when you make a fast arrivally bid like 3NT cuebidding is off the table.

[wyman]

I don't see how it can be RKC. Opener is 0354 + a card that isn't a heart. Responder doesn't have 5 hearts, has a min GF, and wants to play 3N. He really doesn't want to play 4H in a moysian and deal with bad breaks because he has like AKQx / 9xxx / Kx / Jxx.

I think it's to play.

[Cyberyeti]

wyman, on 2012-October-10, 08:26, said:

I don't see how it can be RKC. Opener is 0354 + a card that isn't a heart. Responder doesn't have 5 hearts, has a min GF, and wants to play 3N. He really doesn't want to play 4H in a moysian and deal with bad breaks because he has like AKQx / 9xxx / Kx / Jxx.

I think it's to play.

It's to play - it's even more to play if 4♠ asks for aces.

[Codo]

Partner hears our 3 NT bid. He knows that we do not care about spade stoppers nor about 3 card support in hearts and he still bids 4 ♥. If he is not insane, he is making a passable slam try, so he has something like x, AKx,KQJxx,Axxx and hopes for Axxx,Qxxx,Axx,Kx or the like...

So 4 NT is RCKB (or a spade cue if you play kickback).

If partner tried to improve the contract with x,Kxx,AKxxxx,Axxx or the like, I cannot help him.

[Phil]

4N is to play.

[mikeh]

4N cannot be keycard.

I'll go further: if you ever hold a hand on which you'd want to use keycard as responder, after this auction, the odds are overwhelming that your 3N was a terrible bid.

Otoh, 4N as natural makes a great deal of sense when you are, as you often will be on this sequence, 4=4=2=3, with 3+ spade stoppers and weak hearts.

[PhilKing]

You need a meta rule here:

"When partner moves over 3NT a regression to 4NT is to play unless irrational."

[bluecalm]

Yeah to play. I think opener should be 0-3-6-4 and max for that bidding (or 0-3-5-5 if you play 3C instead of 2C as GF).

[akhare]

+1 for 4N to play...

[rhm]

Codo, on 2012-October-10, 08:51, said:

Partner hears our 3 NT bid. He knows that we do not care about spade stoppers nor about 3 card support in hearts and he still bids 4 ♥. If he is not insane, he is making a passable slam try, so he has something like x, AKx,KQJxx,Axxx and hopes for Axxx,Qxxx,Axx,Kx or the like...

A good player would not jump to 3NT with this spade holding. He would bid fourth suit.

Quote

So 4 NT is RCKB (or a spade cue if you play kickback).

This does not follow. When playing matchpoints and opener is making a slam try what could possibly be a Moysian heart fit and responder has weak hearts and strong spades, 4NT is needed as natural.

Rainer Herrmann

[lalldonn]

100% agree with Mike's comment that if responder even wants to bid rkc here then 3NT was not a good bid.

[rhm]

wyman, on 2012-October-10, 08:26, said:

I don't see how it can be RKC. Opener is 0354 + a card that isn't a heart. Responder doesn't have 5 hearts, has a min GF, and wants to play 3N. He really doesn't want to play 4H in a moysian and deal with bad breaks because he has like AKQx / 9xxx / Kx / Jxx.

I think it's to play.

It would not occur to me to respond 1♥ with your example hand. I would respond 1♠ and bypass the hearts for the moment.
Nevertheless the principle is sound.
Change the spades to KQJx and some corresponding strength elsewhere and the bidding makes sense.

Rainer Herrmann

[ArtK78]

Thanks, all. I was beginning to think that I had lost my sanity after reading some of the earlier responses.

Here were the two hands:

----
J74
AKT543
AQ87

AKT6
Q532
8
K654

1♦ - 1♥
2♣ - 3NT
4♥ - 4NT
6♦ - All Pass

Down 2.

As responder, I could have raised clubs and forced to game by going through 4th suit forcing, but it seemed like that would take us past our most likely game, 3NT. So I just bid it.

When partner decided to suggest playing in the 4-3 heart fit (he could not have 4 hearts on this auction) I had to decide between playing in hearts, notrump and clubs. Rightly or wrongly, I chose notrump, figuring that 4NT was to play. I don't know what my partner was thinking when he bid 6♦, and I probably don't want to know.

[Fluffy]

4NT looks better contract than 5♣ in theory, but in practice I'd rather play 5♣ (not at MPs)

BTW some people suggested partner with a singleton spade, this is completelly impossible for me, 6430 or 5530 are the onlyrational shapes.

[gszes]

late to the game as usual---

first let me agreee with the 4n as being to play.
does anyone see any difference btn the auctions

1d 1h 2c 3n 4h
1d 1h 2c 3n 4s
1d 1s 2c 3n 4h
1d 1s 2c 3n 4s

IMO these are identical with the 4 h/s bid by opener showing their fragment.
This bidding requires p to have a way to shut things down and that bid is 4n.