Help
Having moved to Edinburgh, I am going to play my first UK style league match on Tuesday. This always sounded fun, I am quite looking forward to it.
The scoring is total points, which I have never played outside Robot races (and I don't think they are always going to give me the best hand on Tuesday).
So I am wondering how it differs from IMPs:
Bidding games doesn't seem all that different (slightly more aggressive, especially non-vulnerable - unless you may well get doubled)?
What about overcalls?
What about doubling game contracts?
Is it "Do! not! compete! for! the! partscore! unless you expect to make"?
It also seems rather advisable to make makeable games and to set beatable games.
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Aggregate scoring Advice needed
#1
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Posted 2012-October-07, 07:15
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
#2
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Posted 2012-October-07, 09:14
"Bid your slams and don't go for -1100" was the basic advice I received.
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Posted 2012-October-07, 09:20
Are honours claimable, they are IIRC in the only major total points event in England.
#4
- Andy Bowles
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Posted 2012-October-07, 09:27
Is aggregate scoring common in Scotland? So far as I know IMPs weren't invented by an Englishman, so there's no obvious reason for the Scots to use a different scoring method from the rest of us.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
#5
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Posted 2012-October-07, 09:38
There's one English KO competition which is total points, which we've had quite a lot of success in. A league is slightly different from a KO, but here's what we've learnt:
- total points is a very different game to imps. More so than appears at first sight. Remember, the imps scale was invented to reduce the impact of big-scoring boards, so that levelling-off not longer applies.
- as a general rule, vulnerability matters much more than at other forms of scoring.
- be very aggressive at bidding game, particularly vulnerable, and particularly if you aren't going to be doubled (e.g. raising 1NT to 3NT)
- be more cautious about partscore protection, particularly vulnerable, but not as much as you might initially think (a double partial swing is the same as a NV game against a partial)
- get slams right. They have a disproportionate impact on the overall result. A vulnerable small slam is a straight 50/50 proposition (gain 750 or lose 750) but a vul grand is less attractive than at imps (gain 750/lose 1530 vs gain 13/lose 17).
- if you are going for a penalty, every trick matters. Going for 800 or 1100 against a NV game is only 3 imps difference, but 300 more points is very painful.
- natural redoubles come into their own - those overtricks are worth a huge amount
- in most aggregate matches undoubled over/under-tricks are pretty irrelevant but you should still concentrate. We managed to win a match by 10 points yesterday.
People sometimes think that the danger of a large penalty means you should be more conservative pre-empting, but it's almost the opposite: NV against V is the time to be insanely aggressive, because you need to muck up their vul game and vul slam bidding. Vulnerable against not preempts should be sound, but that's true at all forms of scoring.
...and check to see if honours count (they might do) - doesn't have a huge impact on the auction but you have to remember to claim them.
- total points is a very different game to imps. More so than appears at first sight. Remember, the imps scale was invented to reduce the impact of big-scoring boards, so that levelling-off not longer applies.
- as a general rule, vulnerability matters much more than at other forms of scoring.
- be very aggressive at bidding game, particularly vulnerable, and particularly if you aren't going to be doubled (e.g. raising 1NT to 3NT)
- be more cautious about partscore protection, particularly vulnerable, but not as much as you might initially think (a double partial swing is the same as a NV game against a partial)
- get slams right. They have a disproportionate impact on the overall result. A vulnerable small slam is a straight 50/50 proposition (gain 750 or lose 750) but a vul grand is less attractive than at imps (gain 750/lose 1530 vs gain 13/lose 17).
- if you are going for a penalty, every trick matters. Going for 800 or 1100 against a NV game is only 3 imps difference, but 300 more points is very painful.
- natural redoubles come into their own - those overtricks are worth a huge amount
- in most aggregate matches undoubled over/under-tricks are pretty irrelevant but you should still concentrate. We managed to win a match by 10 points yesterday.
People sometimes think that the danger of a large penalty means you should be more conservative pre-empting, but it's almost the opposite: NV against V is the time to be insanely aggressive, because you need to muck up their vul game and vul slam bidding. Vulnerable against not preempts should be sound, but that's true at all forms of scoring.
...and check to see if honours count (they might do) - doesn't have a huge impact on the auction but you have to remember to claim them.
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Posted 2012-October-07, 10:51
Honours do not count.
Aggregate scoring is popular in Scotland at district and club level, but there are no national aggregate-scored events.
The league that cherdano and I play in has been running since 1935, which was probably before imps(?), and, as we have discussed previously, straight imps is not appropriate for teams of eight. Since I've been here there have been questionnaires asking if it should be changed, but there has never been sufficient support.
As you may have seen from previous posts, change in Scotland happens very slowly, if at all.
The other 'strange' thing about the East District league is that you play twenty-four boards against the same pair. Given that there is a scoring break after twelve boards, I always expected to play a different pair in the second half but this is never done and, again, never received sufficient support to be changed. There are no seating rights for the matches.
My local club has two competitions that run throughout the season based on aggregate scoring, one of which is handicapped.
Aggregate scoring is popular in Scotland at district and club level, but there are no national aggregate-scored events.
The league that cherdano and I play in has been running since 1935, which was probably before imps(?), and, as we have discussed previously, straight imps is not appropriate for teams of eight. Since I've been here there have been questionnaires asking if it should be changed, but there has never been sufficient support.
As you may have seen from previous posts, change in Scotland happens very slowly, if at all.
The other 'strange' thing about the East District league is that you play twenty-four boards against the same pair. Given that there is a scoring break after twelve boards, I always expected to play a different pair in the second half but this is never done and, again, never received sufficient support to be changed. There are no seating rights for the matches.
My local club has two competitions that run throughout the season based on aggregate scoring, one of which is handicapped.
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Posted 2012-October-07, 14:58
paulg, on 2012-October-07, 10:51, said:
My local club has two competitions that run throughout the season based on aggregate scoring, one of which is handicapped.
Do they used duplicated boards?
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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Posted 2012-October-07, 15:40
Vampyr, on 2012-October-07, 14:58, said:
Do they used duplicated boards?
They're not savages, you know. Oh, wait ...
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Posted 2012-October-07, 16:11
PhilKing, on 2012-October-07, 15:40, said:
They're not savages, you know. Oh, wait ...
Now I can't get the image of Mel Gibson playing bridge with blue facepaint out of my head.
#10
- Wabbit
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Posted 2012-October-08, 00:54
FrancesHinden, on 2012-October-07, 09:38, said:
There's one English KO competition which is total points, which we've had quite a lot of success in. A league is slightly different from a KO, but here's what we've learnt:
- total points is a very different game to imps. More so than appears at first sight. Remember, the imps scale was invented to reduce the impact of big-scoring boards, so that levelling-off not longer applies.
- as a general rule, vulnerability matters much more than at other forms of scoring.
- be very aggressive at bidding game, particularly vulnerable, and particularly if you aren't going to be doubled (e.g. raising 1NT to 3NT)
- be more cautious about partscore protection, particularly vulnerable, but not as much as you might initially think (a double partial swing is the same as a NV game against a partial)
- get slams right. They have a disproportionate impact on the overall result. A vulnerable small slam is a straight 50/50 proposition (gain 750 or lose 750) but a vul grand is less attractive than at imps (gain 750/lose 1530 vs gain 13/lose 17).
- if you are going for a penalty, every trick matters. Going for 800 or 1100 against a NV game is only 3 imps difference, but 300 more points is very painful.
- natural redoubles come into their own - those overtricks are worth a huge amount
- in most aggregate matches undoubled over/under-tricks are pretty irrelevant but you should still concentrate. We managed to win a match by 10 points yesterday.
People sometimes think that the danger of a large penalty means you should be more conservative pre-empting, but it's almost the opposite: NV against V is the time to be insanely aggressive, because you need to muck up their vul game and vul slam bidding. Vulnerable against not preempts should be sound, but that's true at all forms of scoring.
...and check to see if honours count (they might do) - doesn't have a huge impact on the auction but you have to remember to claim them.
- total points is a very different game to imps. More so than appears at first sight. Remember, the imps scale was invented to reduce the impact of big-scoring boards, so that levelling-off not longer applies.
- as a general rule, vulnerability matters much more than at other forms of scoring.
- be very aggressive at bidding game, particularly vulnerable, and particularly if you aren't going to be doubled (e.g. raising 1NT to 3NT)
- be more cautious about partscore protection, particularly vulnerable, but not as much as you might initially think (a double partial swing is the same as a NV game against a partial)
- get slams right. They have a disproportionate impact on the overall result. A vulnerable small slam is a straight 50/50 proposition (gain 750 or lose 750) but a vul grand is less attractive than at imps (gain 750/lose 1530 vs gain 13/lose 17).
- if you are going for a penalty, every trick matters. Going for 800 or 1100 against a NV game is only 3 imps difference, but 300 more points is very painful.
- natural redoubles come into their own - those overtricks are worth a huge amount
- in most aggregate matches undoubled over/under-tricks are pretty irrelevant but you should still concentrate. We managed to win a match by 10 points yesterday.
People sometimes think that the danger of a large penalty means you should be more conservative pre-empting, but it's almost the opposite: NV against V is the time to be insanely aggressive, because you need to muck up their vul game and vul slam bidding. Vulnerable against not preempts should be sound, but that's true at all forms of scoring.
...and check to see if honours count (they might do) - doesn't have a huge impact on the auction but you have to remember to claim them.
I've only ever played in one local competition in the UK where total points was used. Generally just playing better than the other team should get you there, but I can't find anything to disagree with the advice given by Frances.
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Unless explicitly stated, none of my views here can be taken to represent SCBA or any other organizations.
Unless explicitly stated, none of my views here can be taken to represent SCBA or any other organizations.
#11
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Posted 2012-October-08, 02:33
Vampyr, on 2012-October-07, 14:58, said:
Do they use duplicated boards?
You are thinking of the SBU Easter Pairs and Autumn Pairs. Play at least twenty-four boards at a normal club evening and the winner is the pair with the highest percentage score in Scotland. Scoring is at club level only and boards are not duplicated over the country. You can also play in as many heats as you like to try and get a winning score, but only your best counts for masterpoint purposes. Completely bizarre, but does raise a lot of money for the SBU.
#12
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Posted 2012-October-08, 02:39
PhilKing, on 2012-October-07, 15:40, said:
They're not savages, you know. Oh, wait ...
barmar, on 2012-October-07, 16:11, said:
Now I can't get the image of Mel Gibson playing bridge with blue facepaint out of my head.
We are in the borders and Berwick is a Scottish club with premises in England (although recent polls suggest that most Berwickers would prefer to be in Scotland).
No blue-rinse brigade though, mainly hardy farming stock. Unlike cherdano and the wealthy who live in the big city.
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Posted 2012-October-08, 05:22
paulg, on 2012-October-08, 02:39, said:
We are in the borders and Berwick is a Scottish club with premises in England (although recent polls suggest that most Berwickers would prefer to be in Scotland).
Berwick IS in Scotland. For those that may not know this, there is a river called the Tweed, and those that do, know that "tweed" means "Scottish". Berwick is north of the river.
More evidence - when the NEBA (northern England region) play southern Scotland we go to Berwick for an away match.
More evidence - we never see people from Berwick in the NEBA regional events.
More evidence - we can hardly understand a word they say. Luckily we have almost the same written language, and we use bidding boxes.
#14
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Posted 2012-October-08, 06:02
fromageGB, on 2012-October-08, 05:22, said:
Berwick IS in Scotland. For those that may not know this, there is a river called the Tweed, and those that do, know that "tweed" means "Scottish". Berwick is north of the river.
More evidence - when the NEBA (northern England region) play southern Scotland we go to Berwick for an away match.
More evidence - when the NEBA (northern England region) play southern Scotland we go to Berwick for an away match.
The NEBA match is against the East District. The people from Edinburgh think it is an away match too
Quote
More evidence - we never see people from Berwick in the NEBA regional events.
Five pairs played at the Cramlington Congress and, occasionally, the Northern Swiss Pairs at Alnwick. But, to be fair, only a couple of pairs ever play in Edinburgh events.
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