[sceptic]

I play (sometimes) reverse bergen and jacoby 2nt

I come across the odd hand I am not sure what to do with.

If p opens 1 major and I have 0-7 points and 5 card support I will bid game as a weak limit raise, sometimes I have a few extra points that if I only had 4 cards I would bergen raise themor bid jacoby 2nt, my question is

how do I evaluate the hand say good 7 to 9 points with 5 cards

AKxxx or xxxxx and hcp in other suits,

or 11 points and a 5 card support

does a bergen bid with 5 card support show a failing of partnership agreementsx dor is it an acceptable compromise?


hope you understand what I am getting at

[Fluffy]

Jacoby with 5-7 trumps is more than ok, actually the convention was designed for hands where you virtually didn´t had a forcing bid (can´t splinter and don´t have any 4 card outside suit), looking for partner to 'splinter' you .

I have no clue about bergen raises, I rarelly play them.

[whereagles]

To decide whether to bid 2NT or a straight 4S, you usually look at the "ODR" of the hand, meaning 'offense-to-defense ratio'. The higher the ODR the more you want to bid a direct 4.

AKQxx
x
xxxx
xxx

This hand makes 0-1 tricks defending, and 4-5 on attack. The ODR is around +4, so it's a direct 4 bid.

Axxxx
xx
Kxx
QJx

This one can make 2-3 tricks on defense and about 4-5 on attack. ODR is now +2, meaning it's probably better to start with a jacoby 2NT.

Note that in the 1st hand you won't know whether to bid 5S over an opponent's 5H bid (at least not without pard's cooperation), whereas in the second hand to double 5H is clear-cut.

[pbleighton]

Whereagles writes:
"To decide whether to bid 2NT or a straight 4S, you usually look at the "ODR" of the hand, meaning 'offense-to-defense ratio'. The higher the ODR the more you want to bid a direct 4.

AKQxx
x
xxxx
xxx

This hand makes 0-1 tricks defending, and 4-5 on attack. The ODR is around +4, so it's a direct 4 bid."

Agree with your general point, but disagree with your example, which is WAY too strong IMO for a jump to 4.

Peter

[hrothgar]

When looking at your raise strucutre, I recommend using Loosing Trick COunt rather than HCP...

Much more accurate

[pclayton]

Its fine to carry on with a Bergen 'mixed' raise to game with 5 trump and some shape. Something like: Axxxx, x, Kxxx, xxx feels about right. It tells your pard that you have the hand for game, and a little defense.

[Chamaco]

sceptic, on Nov 27 2004, 08:17 PM, said:

I play (sometimes) reverse bergen and jacoby 2nt

I come across the odd hand I am not sure what to do with.

If p opens 1 major and I have 0-7 points and 5 card support I will bid game as a weak limit raise, sometimes I have a few extra points that if I only had 4 cards I would bergen raise themor bid jacoby 2nt, my question is

how do I evaluate the hand say good 7 to 9 points with 5 cards

AKxxx  or xxxxx and hcp in other suits,

or 11 points and a 5 card support

does a bergen bid with 5 card support show a failing of partnership agreementsx dor is it an acceptable compromise?


hope you understand what I am getting at

You should check the COMPLETE Bergen structure given in Better bidding with Bergen.

"Bergen raises" is not only using J2NT as 4 trumps GF and 3♣♦ as mixed and limit raise (and direct 3M preemptive).

It also includes the "concealed splinter" (3♠ or 3NT) , and using 4♣ and 4♦ for goodish 5 trumps support (one is a genuine gf, the other is a sort of mixed raise with 5 trumps ) but too good for direct 4M raise (preemptive).

So, using Full Bergen with the type of hand you mention, you'd bid either 4 clubs or 4d.

The only problem is that most people who say to play "Bergen raises" do not use and will take it as splinter.

[luke warm]

i like to play bergen structure like chamaco said, but 4c shows a top honor and 4d doesn't.. i also play the undisclosed splinter

[pclayton]

I know some that play the undisclosed splinter, but I think a better use of the 1♥ - 3♠ and the 1♠ - 3N is a void splinter.