[han]

None vul, IMPs. Qxx AKx Jxxxx xx.

1D - (2S) - 2NT - (p)
4NT - (p) - ??

Do you agree with 2NT? What now?

[Yu18772]

I dont understand the hand exactly as it is written - what is B or V? But assuming you hold something like 10-12 HCP, if I accept I bid 5♦.
Yu

[han]

Thanks, edited the honors.

By the way, isn't 5D a rejection here?

[Codo]

I would reject with 5 ♦.

[Cyberyeti]

Don't like 2N (assuming it's natural) as it wrongsides no trumps opposite Kx (and just possibly wrongsides 6N opposite Ax, Qx, AKxxx, KQJ10), I'd rather show diamonds and a possible 9 count than a spade stop and an 11 count first time.

I find it difficult to visualise what partner's looking at where he opens 1♦ then bids a quantitative 4N over 2N.

[mikeh]

Tough hand.

if we accept, driving to any slam, he'll hold J10x Qx AKQxxx AQ or the like and we are beat off the top, and will wish we had passed 4N.

if we reject, he'll hold Kx xx AKQxxx AKx and 6♦ is cold.

Feel free to tweak these examples to accord with your sensibilities about opening action if you'd choose something other than 1♦...I am not trying to specify partner's hand with precision but, rather, to indicate the nature of the issues that worry me.

We can talk ourselves into whatever decision appeals to us. My take, and I accept that I am on the conswervative side, is that partner asked me a question and I think I have an obvious answer.

I hold a minimum 2N call with the worst possible spade holding, in terms of right-siding the contract or avoiding quick losers. So I will reject. I see no particular advantage to playing 5♦ rather than 4N, and there has to be a small chance that 5♦ is just down off the top, so I'll stay with 4N.

[Yu18772]

han, on 2012-September-25, 03:20, said:

Thanks, edited the honors.

By the way, isn't 5D a rejection here?

I think that once you chose to bid 2NT (personally dont like it ) it idoesnt mak lots of sense as rejection - you chose to play NT and hide the ♦ at lower level, i.e. you would rather play 3NT than 5♦.....so now you change your mind when partner shows a better hand?
I would take anything over 4NT as looking for better slam spot than 6NT - but thats my crooked logic
Yu

[han]

Yu, do we agree that partner has to have long diamonds for his jump to 4NT? If we want to suggest a diamond slam we can just jump to 6D. If we want to suggest it more subtlely, perhaps we can bid something like 5S, a grand slam try doesn't make any sense. So, I see no reason for a forcing 5D bid while a non-forcing 5D would make perfect sense (and is actually the choice of several posters).

In general I'd say that after a quantitative 4NT bid 5m in a suit already bid is a sign off. Of course after 1NT - 4NT it is forcing.

[gnasher]

I think we know he is 6322 or 7222. He would have bid a second suit, and with a singleton spade he would have bid 3♠.

I agree that 5♦ is non-forcing, because we have 5NT and 6♦ available to offer a choice - 5NT being more notrump-oriented, presumably. I'd be nervous of making assumptions about 5♠ or 5♥.

Even though 5♦ is non-forcing, shouldn't it be constructive? It's hard to picture a hand that wants to sign off in 5♦.

Given that, I'd bid 5♦. If I'm uncertain about the correct level, maybe partner can help, or at least share the blame.

[PhilKing]

Six Diamonds.

Zia says I must construct at least 3 hands before misbidding a slam. So ...

Opposite as little as ♠Ax ♥Qx ♦At9xxx ♣AKx we are on a 1-1 break for grand. How bad can it be? Even a sub-min ♠Kx ♥Jx ♦Akxxxx ♣AQx is worth being in. If we have matching club doubletons and partner has Jxx of hearts, things aren't so good, but we can't find that out, and we are still decent opposite ♠Ax ♥Jxx ♦Akxxxx ♣AQ and solid if he has the club king.

There are some losing constructions, but I am prepared to take a chance.

[Codo]

How do you decide whether partner holds help in spades or not?
Do you have any sensible agreement how to ask whether partner holds the given holding or a more serious one?

I do not have one, so I would not construct just hands where they cannot cash two spades....

[gnasher]

PhilKing, on 2012-September-26, 06:20, said:

Six Diamonds.

Zia says I must construct at least 3 hands before misbidding a slam. So ...

Opposite as little as ♠Ax ♥Qx ♦At9xxx ♣AKx we are on a 1-1 break for grand. How bad can it be? Even a sub-min ♠Kx ♥Jx ♦Akxxxx ♣AQx is worth being in. If we have matching club doubletons and partner has Jxx of hearts, things aren't so good, but we can't find that out, and we are still decent opposite ♠Ax ♥Jxx ♦Akxxxx ♣AQ and solid if he has the club king.

There are some losing constructions, but I am prepared to take a chance.

All of these hands have no wastage in diamonds. Isn't he at least as likely to have Kx Jx AKQxxx Axx or Ax Jxx AKQxxx Ax ?

[PhilKing]

gnasher, on 2012-September-26, 06:45, said:

All of these hands have no wastage in diamonds. Isn't he at least as likely to have Kx Jx AKQxxx Axx or Ax Jxx AKQxxx Ax ?

First is not a slam try, since partner is also supposed to construct hands (he needs a real perfecto, probably with good clubs, and many good hands we have with controls and fit yield little play). I don't think you can justify the second either. He needs controls - not slow values like the diamond queen or Jxx of hearts. I don't see how he can think we are likely to have a slam.

As to Codo's point that we may be missing the AK of spades, that gives partner xx QJx AKQxxx AK (a proper slam try) on which he should jump to 4♦.

On the actual auction, I place him with a control rich hand with honours in every suit, otherwise he ain't got his bid!

[cherdano]

It would really help to know partner's style. Most of the example hands in this thread that make slam good look like 2NT openings to me.

[JLOGIC]

I think 5D is pretty clear. It is never right when people say this, but I will try, sometimes partner might be able to kick it in when it's right since he will know roughly our hand when we bid 5D.

[Trinidad]

Partner's hand is more defined by what he didn't bid than what he did bid.

1) Partner didn't open 2NT
2) Partner didn't jump to 4♦, which would have set diamonds as trump, and give us room to cue

So, I don't think partner is balanced and I don't think he has a onesuiter. I could imagine that partner has a big (20 HCPs) 4M5♦22 (♠AJxx ♥Qx ♦AKxxx ♣AQ) or 4M5♦31 and thinks that bidding his major is daisy picking. Opposite such a hand, I would bid 6♦.

Rik

[gszes]

i would have been a ton happier if i had bid 3d over 2s. I would then not have nagging doubts
about gettting slaughtered by a ton of spades in any nt contract. It is imps and it is hugely unlikely
p has made a 4n bid without a fairly distributional hand and a lot of power. I have a fair amount of
offense myself in diamonds and If I am going down in a contract it will not be 3/4/5 tricks. I will
bid 6d here and hope that p understands that my spade stop might have been a tad on the
sketchy side.