[bigbenvic]

See this is a hand I want to play, KJxxxx Kxx Ax Ax no lead can be that bad for me, can it? If pards plays it we might be off the first 2 with AQ ♥ offside.

I want to start 3♠ hear pards response, and then keycard. I'm bidding six spades and as long as pards has 2 keycards I'm in 6.

yes it could be wrong but given the limited agreements I'm hapy to apologise to partner if wrong.

[Phil]

bigbenvic, on 2012-September-26, 01:28, said:

See this is a hand I want to play, KJxxxx Kxx Ax Ax no lead can be that bad for me, can it? If pards plays it we might be off the first 2 with AQ ♥ offside.

I want to start 3♠ hear pards response, and then keycard. I'm bidding six spades and as long as pards has 2 keycards I'm in 6.

yes it could be wrong but given the limited agreements I'm hapy to apologise to partner if wrong.

3♠ for us would show a 1=3(45) shape.

[CSGibson]

mild slam invite, balanced with 6+ spades, seems like the best description.

[aguahombre]

CSGibson, on 2012-September-26, 09:40, said:

mild slam invite, balanced with 6+ (broken) spades, seems like the best description.

Phil didn't have that available. Old fashioned Walsh did.

3S (broken, maybe only five) 3N (only two spades)
4S (6 of them) Pass with the given opener, since we must be off a couple critical cards and opener doesn't have a super five-bagger in one of the other suits for 6 NT.

The mild slam tries which started with non-texas and then bid four showed better spades than this, and IMO there is nothing "mild" about this hand's slam try, and quants which do not show the sixth spade seem ill-advised.

This post has been edited by aguahombre: 2012-September-27, 04:32

[mike777]

side note, given this is MP after:

1nt=2h
2s=4nt(quant)
?

should opener pass?
in other words at MP do we want to be more conservative in bidding slams compared to imps?

[PhilKing]

Just to check my own judgment (drive slam via RKCB, however your methods allow) I generated 16 boards on playbridge.com, giving opener a strong no trump with 2-3 spades (it's probably irrelevant how we bid when he has 4).

Slam was at least playable on all 14 of the 16 hands where we were not missing an ace and the trump queen (albeit not making all 14 times - only 13). When we stopped in 5 it made an overtrick once and went down once.

I ran a separate sim for decent 14 counts with a five card minor, and punting slam was still a winner.

6NT was a good shot if you think the field will be in 6♠, but based on how people here are undervaluing this hand, we should settle for 6♠ in most fields.

[PhilKing]

.

[gszes]

w/o good asking bids there is little we can do but guess here, Since it is with 30-32 hcp I am
not going to worry much about the 7 level. There are indeed some really poor hands p can have
that might make 6s impossible but they are few and far between. I would bid 4c (gerber) over 1n
and unless i am missing 2 aces (possible) i will bid


6s.

6S may not be the top mp scoring spot but if 6 is doomed to fail it may go down less.

[MrAce]

bigbenvic, on 2012-September-26, 01:28, said:

See this is a hand I want to play, KJxxxx Kxx Ax Ax no lead can be that bad for me, can it? If pards plays it we might be off the first 2 with AQ ♥ offside.

I want to start 3♠ hear pards response, and then keycard. I'm bidding six spades and as long as pards has 2 keycards I'm in 6.

yes it could be wrong but given the limited agreements I'm hapy to apologise to partner if wrong.

Unfortunately 3♠ natural is not available for me

But good plan if it is available for you.

[PhilKing]

FWIW, on the 32 hands I generated in total, it was never necessary to play from our side. On one occasion slam made from partner's side only and on a few more it was better from partner's side but made regardless.

[aguahombre]

IMHO, generating a number of hands and determining how many of them have a good play for slam doesn't mean much.

I would rather generate an auction which gives us a clue whether this particular hand should have a good play for slam.

[PhilKing]

aguahombre, on 2012-September-27, 04:49, said:

IMHO, generating a number of hands and determining how many of them have a good play for slam doesn't mean much.

I would rather generate an auction which gives us a clue whether this particular hand should have a good play for slam.

We already have - auction: 1NT-?.

Basically we are almost always cold for slam. How that can't be useful information baffles me. I can find out if he is min with only two spades if you want and we are generally still making slam more often than not.

The real issue should be whether we could reach seven (it was solid a few times). The "mild invite" crew obviously don't see it that way, but maybe looking at a basic sim might cure them.

For me, 1NT-2♥ is invitational or better with 5+ spades, so exploring seven is easy on this hand type. On the actual hand low-level RKCB would allow a stop in Four Spades.

[aguahombre]

Remain baffled.

[Zelandakh]

Do you mean a good auction given the OP conditions or generally a good auction agua. Obviously the latter is considerably easier. What PK is saying is that his simulation suggests the hand is worth a slam drive and plays marginally better from Opener's side and therefore, given the OP conditions, the auction of transferring to spades and launching RKCB is indicated.

[PhilKing]

aguahombre, on 2012-September-27, 06:30, said:

Remain baffled.

Fortunately I am usually only baffled by hogwash.

[billw55]

Phil, on 2012-September-25, 09:14, said:

Not a good day for slams. This hand transferred and bid 4N. Opener accepted to 6N with Ax Qxx KJxxx KQJ, but maybe thats too aggressive. Both pointed Q's were onside, but spades were 4-1 and diamonds were 5-1. Is it that wacky to actually try to discover key cards along the way?

One player bid 3N over 1N. Some think he had a wire.

They thought he had a wire? That seems like going too far. What I see here is that opener has an average hand, luck is average (maybe a little below), and slam isn't there. Maybe my judgement is off.

[aguahombre]

I don't know about OP's choice of system after a NT opening, and all that goes into people's decisions to use all the methods they use. They decide, based on their experience, what they must give up to gain in the long run, and then hopefully cram as much as they can into the bids which are available to cover the rest.

If we have chosen not to have a method which will allow us to determine for this situation whether we have spade fillers and controls ---or a side trick source for a NT slam --- then a sim would be a good thing to use and we just Wood and blast or Wood and not blast. I never used the term "good auction", so I don't know what you mean, Zel.

What we have available would seem to be better for us in this case. Maybe in a different circumstance we will need to fake it based on a priori expectations because our tools don't cover that one. No value judgement from me on the relative merits of one style over another; just a preference.

[Zelandakh]

aguahombre, on 2012-September-27, 06:58, said:

I never used the term "good auction", so I don't know what you mean, Zel.

A "good auction" was meant to be shorthand for "an auction which gives us a clue whether this particular hand should have a good play for slam."

[Phil]

billw55, on 2012-September-27, 06:54, said:

They thought he had a wire? That seems like going too far. What I see here is that opener has an average hand, luck is average (maybe a little below), and slam isn't there. Maybe my judgement is off.

I am not comfortable discussing this in a public forum. PM if you want more details.