[jillybean]

Hi,

In a Kickback context, how do you play 4N this auction. Spade cue, quantitative, something else?

1N 2C 2H 4N

[BunnyGo]

 jillybean, on 2012-September-22, 21:47, said:

Hi,

In a Kickback context, how do you play 4N this auction. Spade cue, quantitative, something else?

1N 2C 2H 4N

I assume that this is just one partnership bidding with no interference.

I rarely play kickback, but whether I do or not, this auction would be quantitative without a heart fit.

I play the following general structure (I can't recall its "name") after 1N-2C; 2H-??:

3S = anonymous splinter and 3NT asks
4C = slam invite with 4+ hearts
4D = 1430
4N = quant no fit

Some players switch the meaning of 4C and 4D, I don't know why one way is better than the other.

If the auction had been 1N-2C; 2S--?? the only change is that 3H is the anonymous splinter.

[aguahombre]

Quant. We can still play in a 4-4 spade fit.

[mike777]

4nt is quant.


4s over 2h is rkc in h.

4c or 4d over 2h are splinters, slam try in H.

[JLOGIC]

Yeah usually people have system here, but if no system was agreed I would take 4S as keycard and 4N as quanititative. You need some bid with a 16 count and 4 spades and no heart fit.

[JLOGIC]

 BunnyGo, on 2012-September-22, 22:04, said:

I assume that this is just one partnership bidding with no interference.

I rarely play kickback, but whether I do or not, this auction would be quantitative without a heart fit.

I play the following general structure (I can't recall its "name") after 1N-2C; 2H-??:

3S = anonymous splinter and 3NT asks
4C = slam invite with 4+ hearts
4D = 1430
4N = quant no fit

Some players switch the meaning of 4C and 4D, I don't know why one way is better than the other.

If the auction had been 1N-2C; 2S--?? the only change is that 3H is the anonymous splinter.

Just to add to this (Standard) system, I think using 4S as the quantitative with no fit bid makes sense, since you might want to play 4S opposite a hand with a spade fit and a min. You could do some other stuff but most people leave this bid as undefined so I think its a useful cost free improvement to play this way in that case.

[ArtK78]

In a system with limited agreements, 4NT is quantitative.

If you have added at least the fact that 3♠ over 2♥ shows a game forcing heart raise, then you would bid 3♠ to agree hearts before bidding RKCB. So now 4♠ is an idle call. I use it for a weaker quantitative invite (asks opener to accept only with a maximum) and, therefore, 4NT becomes a stronger quantitative invite (asks opener to accept except with a minimum).

I use the double-barrelled quantitative invite whenever 4♠ is an idle bid, which occurs in many NT auctions assuming you play Texas.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

 BunnyGo, on 2012-September-22, 22:04, said:

(I can't recall its "name") after 1N-2C; 2H-??:

3S = anonymous splinter and 3NT asks
4C = slam invite with 4+ hearts [ EDIT: no shortness ]
4D = 1430
4N = quant no fit

Some players switch the meaning of 4C and 4D, I don't know why one way is better than the other.

Baze ( where 4C = fit, RKC )

Modified Baze ( where 4D = fit, RKC )

From a previous post last year [ http://www.bridgebas...235#entry579235
].. reply by jjbrr :

"Probably slightly better to switch your 4♣ and 4♦ responses. It's better to have more room to explore after the quantitative raise, and you have plenty of room for keycards with 4D. So you lose nothing by switching but gain an extra cuebid for the bal slam try. "

[jillybean]

Thanks.

In the auction 1N 2C 2S 3H is 3N still the shortness ask, what is 3S?

[ArtK78]

 jillybean, on 2012-September-23, 10:14, said:

Thanks.

In the auction 1N 2C 2S 3H is 3N still the shortness ask, what is 3S?

3♠ should be the shortness ask, as it is clearly forcing. 3NT can be a suggestion to play 3NT, or it can be some other form of slam try.

[aguahombre]

 ArtK78, on 2012-September-23, 10:16, said:

3♠ should be the shortness ask, as it is clearly forcing. 3NT can be a suggestion to play 3NT, or it can be some other form of slam try.

Or, a control bid for us simple folks. 3NT is not really needed as "Serious" when the NT hand is already limited, so it might be used to show something like slow stops in spades to enable us to stop in 3NT if no slam.

[CSGibson]

4N in this auction is a quantitative slam try with a 4 card spade suit, but without 4 hearts.

I play 2 levels of quantitative slam tries, 4♠ would also have been a quantitative slam try with 4 spades and without 4 hearts, but showing a slightly stronger hand (go if you have anything but a dead minimum).

As to your other question, about 3 other major showing unspecified shortage, I always play that the next step asks, and then we show shortness up the line. 3N would be undefined for us, we've committed to playing in the major - but 4 of the major would definitely be "I would not cooperate in slam opposite any specific shortness, go on at your discretion".

[fromageGB]

I am unfamiliar with this method, the unspecified shortage and the shortage ask. If responder has SI and a shortage, you bid 1NT 2♣ 2♠ 3♥ 3♠/NT asking 4♦ = shortage? I currently use 1NT 2♣ 2♠ 4♦ for that. What would an immediate 4m, rather than a delayed, mean for you?

[Zelandakh]

It depends on the rest of your system. If you play 1NT - 2♣; 2♥ - 2♠ as your range ask then you do not need 4NT as natural here. So the next on the list would probably be XRKCB. As others have said though, the default would be quantitative unless that is covered elsewhere.

[ArtK78]

 fromageGB, on 2012-September-24, 04:55, said:

I am unfamiliar with this method, the unspecified shortage and the shortage ask. If responder has SI and a shortage, you bid 1NT 2♣ 2♠ 3♥ 3♠/NT asking 4♦ = shortage? I currently use 1NT 2♣ 2♠ 4♦ for that. What would an immediate 4m, rather than a delayed, mean for you?

1NT - 2♣
2M - ?

3OM - 4 card support for major, slam interest, shortage somewhere (next bid asks, responder shows shortage up the line)
4♣ - RKCB
4♦ - 4 card support for major, slam interest, no shortage