Matchpoints. Mainstream 2/1.
First-bid dilemma
#2
Posted 2012-September-20, 13:15
#3
Posted 2012-September-20, 13:16
"...we live off being battle-scarred veterans who manage to hate our opponents slightly more than we hate each other. -- Hamman, re: Wolff
#4
Posted 2012-September-20, 13:24
-gwnn
#6
Posted 2012-September-20, 15:27
#7
Posted 2012-September-20, 16:11
If I bid 1♠ (extremely wide ranging) and get a negative double, pass from pard and something from rho, now what? I can be swayed to the 1♠ overcall if that can be answered.
What is baby oil made of?
#8
Posted 2012-September-20, 16:14
JLOGIC, on 2012-September-20, 15:27, said:
Totally agree and I even used to try overcalling 1NT with a 5 card major quite often, I can definitively say it worked out very badly for me until finally I stopped.
- billw55
#9
Posted 2012-September-21, 13:19
JLOGIC, on 2012-September-20, 15:27, said:
lalldonn, on 2012-September-20, 16:14, said:
Why is this the case? With the wide range of the overcall, it seems like the benefit of narrowing that range would be increased. Is it just that the chance of game is so much lower when they open?
#10
Posted 2012-September-21, 13:39
quiddity, on 2012-September-21, 13:19, said:
Good question! I'm interested too.
My guess is that with less points in your partner's hand it's likely to be a part score battle, 1♠ gets you better placed from the get go.
Your safer in 1 or 2 ♠ when your partner is bust, its a lot easier to get nailed when they open the bidding.
#11
Posted 2012-September-21, 16:10
I dislike 1N strongly - too hard to find a 5-3 fit in ♠.
The reason I like double first is I prefer the overcall limit of 16 HCP and prefer an overcall than double to promise a 6-card trumps suit and imply 6331 shape.
Playing a higher overcall range 1♠ is appealing.
Trust demands integrity, balance and collaboration.
District 11
Unit 124
Steve Moese
#12
Posted 2012-September-24, 00:35
#14
Posted 2012-September-24, 06:15
The only reason to start with X - you happen to play a very limited range for overcall,
like in the old days, when a simple overcall was limited to 15HCP.
With kind regards
Marlowe
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#15
Posted 2012-September-24, 06:19
jmcw, on 2012-September-21, 13:39, said:
My guess is that with less points in your partner's hand it's likely to be a part score battle, 1♠ gets you better placed from the get go.
Your safer in 1 or 2 ♠ when your partner is bust, its a lot easier to get nailed when they open the bidding.
Another reason - partner is less likely to start a rescue seq. using Stayman.
Most of the time, you will be long in their suit, so he will only use Stayman with Game interest.
And if you show the spades, partner wont expect a 5 carder.
With kind regards
Marlowe
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#16
Posted 2012-September-24, 09:08
wyman, on 2012-September-20, 13:16, said:
I'm "4+".
I suppose this hand is in range.
Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
#17
Posted 2012-September-24, 09:57
quiddity, on 2012-September-21, 13:19, said:
I'm not sure why. I think the main benefit of opening 1NT with a 5 card major is preemption and description, and neither matters so much after the opponents have opened. Or maybe since partner usually was too weak to bid we would miss a major suit fit, plus they are making better leads than when I opened 1NT so it cost more to miss the fit on top of it. Overcalling doesn't really lose much anyway, I can rebid the appropriate amount of notrump if partner acts.
- billw55
#18
Posted 2012-September-24, 14:58
1. Paradoxically, we make it easier for partner to help us in a competitive partscore hand by starting with the (usually weaker) choice of 1♠ rather than 1N. Consider: LHO bids 2 suit over 1N. Partner, with a useful 5 or 6 count with 3 or 4 spades, has to pass.....exactly as he would have done with a useless hand. We can hardly suppress our spades a second time, so we are forced to bid 2♠ and hope for a fit. Had we bid 1♠, partner would raise in competition.
2. Sometimes LHO has an easier bid over 1N than over 1♠. Consider LHO holding some 6322 with long clubs and a weak hand. He can bid 2♣, creating a problem....see above....whereas over 1♠ he must pass, and maybe partner raises, and rho can't bid. Sure, sometimes LHO can reopen, but we have created problems and guesses for them, whereas 1N does the same thing for us
3. We may need the long trump to afford us control of one of the side suits
4. Bidding 1N may get us to an inferior heart partial, when partner transfers us into hearts (or bids them directly if transfers aren't available.
Why is this different than opening 1N with a major, which I do frequently?
I think part of it is strength expectation. When we are the first to bid, we can expect partner to hold about 8 hcp on average, and if we are in second, probably a touch more, since we eliminate the hands where RHO holds 12+ (maybe 11 against some opps).
This means that we rate to hold most of the hcp most of the time.....if we hold 16, we have 21 or more far more than 50% of the time, and so we rate to be able to stop most suits.
When RHO opens, and we hold about 16, we can probably usefully place RHO with 13-14 on average, and now our expectation of a substantial plurality of the strength is almost gone, and we'd have an expectation of an average of 4 or 5 hcp for partner. This means that we are likely to benefit from trump control of a side suit in order to limit the opps' ability to cash winners.
In addition, it is usually far more difficult for the opps to compete, causing us to guess whether to show the major, after we open 1N than it is after RHO opened.
LHO can raise to 2m on hands on which neither opp would squeak after a 1N opening. He can also (for most opps) show a weak one-suiter or (for some opps) a weak 2 suiter, both on hands that wouldn't dream of bidding over a 1N opening bid.
I don't claim to have spent a lot of time on this, and have zero experience to back it up....I don't think I have ever overcalled 1N holding a 5 card major, altho I admit that I'd consider it with a major of, say, 9xxxx and an otherwise suitable hand.....but I don't count those, since 9xxxx is really only barely a 4 card suit
![:P](http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
#19
Posted 2012-September-24, 16:55
George Carlin
#20
Posted 2012-September-24, 17:08
I would open this a balanced NT if my range included the value of this hand. I don't think this is contradictory at all. FWIW I wonder if it's different when we have hearts instead of spades since it's easier for them to get in after a 1♥ overcall.
East4Evil ♥ sohcahtoa 4ever!!!!!1