[Fluffy]

I have a lot of experience on this matter, and my best advice is: don't let him play a par contract if he is worse than the field (if you can avoid it, those 10 card major fit stink )

[Zelandakh]

 RunemPard, on 2012-September-14, 01:24, said:

Yes, my 3C bid may not have been my best option. But should I continue bidding? Possibly 3H was a better bid by me, that I may agree to, but I must say parding him often leaves me guessing more times than not. I rarely know what to expect any more.

I daresay the feeling is mutual! By bidding 3♣ here you were showing your partner a strong hand. How can he know what to expect from you if you make a strong bid with shrott? It is not much different from opening 2♣ with ♠AJTx/♥QJxx/♦AQ/♣QJx. In the auction 1♥ - 1♠; 2♥, you have 2 emergency breaks with a weak hand - Pass and 2♠. 3♥ would show an invitational hand (as would 2NT and 3♠). So the best action over 2♥ would be to pass. If game makes then it is either unlucky or your partner underbid with 2♥.

If the problem is that partner underbids then overbidding to compensate is very bad - all it does is encourage them to underbid more. But that was not the biggest problem here. The problem is that you made an unnecessary psyche in a partnership where trust is already a problem. Just bid your hand and give your partner some trust back. In return, they might stop trying to second guess what crazy thing you are going to do next and start bidding their hand. And try to remember that bridge is a partnership game, not a blame game. Partnership means working together. This is doubly important when you both have so much still to learn.

[barmar]

You BOTH misbid on that hand. He should have raised your spades at his first chance -- once he failed to do that, you could never be expected to realize that he had 4-card support for you. But you should not have bid a game-forcing 3♣; either pass or bid 3♥ at that point.

One of the mistakes that new bridge players make is changing their mind in the middle of an auction. You can't make a game forcing bid and then pass because you realize you overbid earlier. Once you're in a game force, partner can make temporizing bids, "knowing" that you won't pass them.

You may be wondering why 3♣ is forcing to game, not just an attempt to improve the contract. Because if partner doesn't have a fit for either of your suits, he can't leave you there. If he has diamonds stopped (which he probably will, since he doesn't have much in your suits), he'll bid 3NT. So you have to be strong enough for this to be a reasonable contract opposite a minimum opener.

[RunemPard]

 barmar, on 2012-September-14, 10:37, said:

You BOTH misbid on that hand. He should have raised your spades at his first chance -- once he failed to do that, you could never be expected to realize that he had 4-card support for you. But you should not have bid a game-forcing 3♣; either pass or bid 3♥ at that point.

One of the mistakes that new bridge players make is changing their mind in the middle of an auction. You can't make a game forcing bid and then pass because you realize you overbid earlier. Once you're in a game force, partner can make temporizing bids, "knowing" that you won't pass them.

You may be wondering why 3♣ is forcing to game, not just an attempt to improve the contract. Because if partner doesn't have a fit for either of your suits, he can't leave you there. If he has diamonds stopped (which he probably will, since he doesn't have much in your suits), he'll bid 3NT. So you have to be strong enough for this to be a reasonable contract opposite a minimum opener.

I knew very well what 3♣ said to my partner. I only bid it because I thought maybe he had something better based on how the whole day had gone from him in general. If anything I decided for once to trust him by passing 3♠! The thing is I was damn well right about my thinking that he was in another monster hand that he cannot see.

This is the same partner who couldn't understand how strong..

KT54
-
AKT7643
A5

was after the bidding went from me... 1D-(2N*)-??

3D was his bid...I rose to 5D with...

AQJ9
AJ94
Q982
8

with no real agreements such as splinters, control bidding, etc. This bid was PASSED!

So I am getting quite annoyed with all of these comments about my level of play when I !!DO KNOW!! that 3C is a strong bid IN A PARTNERSHIP WITH SOME KINDA LOGIC.



The guy is a very nice gentleman. A great friend to have. I only pard him because I feel rather horrible trying to explain to him that I would rather play with somebody better. I would hate to lose a friendship over such a silly thing.

I often take our hands here as a way to vent my frustrations. I am very competitive, I do not mind losing, but it absolutely drives me mad to do your best against 3 half the night.

[CSGibson]

Hi Don,
If you are unhappy in your partnership then it is definitely best to end the partnership sooner rather than later. A good (and it sounds like accurate) reason for doing so is that you and your partner have different bridge goals, as evidenced by your participation on this board/general desire to improve, vs your partner's apparent lack of desire to work on his own game.

I was in a few unequal partnerships starting out, and I know it sometimes feels like you are trapped, and that you would be hurting your partner's feelings by asking to leave. It's probably true that his feelings will be hurt initially, but it sounds like that is going to happen eventually anyway, putting it off is just delaying the inevitable and in turn prolonging your own unhappiness. And, unless you are saint Don of eternal suffering, its very likely that some of your frustration will boil over and make things less enjoyable for your partner, so ending the partnership will be best for both of you in the long run.

[JLOGIC]

Make all the decisions. Jump to the contract you want to play whenever you have enough info, if you don't have enough info try to cuebid something or make your best guess.

If you have a bad hand, attempt to preempt/mess up the opps.

If your partner doesn't watch your cards on defense falsecard a lot, lead 5th best liberally, etc.

[JLOGIC]

 Fluffy, on 2012-September-14, 03:13, said:

I have a lot of experience on this matter, and my best advice is: don't let him play a par contract if he is worse than the field (if you can avoid it, those 10 card major fit stink )

Best one I had with this is I was playing with a weak partner against the best pair in the room. My partner opened 1N so I passed with 9. She misplayed it to make 1 but the field was in 3N down so it was ok.

[neilkaz]

 CSGibson, on 2012-September-14, 11:57, said:

Hi Don,
If you are unhappy in your partnership then it is definitely best to end the partnership sooner rather than later. A good (and it sounds like accurate) reason for doing so is that you and your partner have different bridge goals, as evidenced by your participation on this board/general desire to improve, vs your partner's apparent lack of desire to work on his own game.

I was in a few unequal partnerships starting out, and I know it sometimes feels like you are trapped, and that you would be hurting your partner's feelings by asking to leave. It's probably true that his feelings will be hurt initially, but it sounds like that is going to happen eventually anyway, putting it off is just delaying the inevitable and in turn prolonging your own unhappiness. And, unless you are saint Don of eternal suffering, its very likely that some of your frustration will boil over and make things less enjoyable for your partner, so ending the partnership will be best for both of you in the long run.

I am in 100% agreement with Chris here and from reading several posts by you today, it is very clear to me that you're hurting you bridge and even bridge development by doing things to cater to PD. I'd end this partnership in the most immediate and diplomatic manner possible.

[daveharty]

 kereru67, on 2012-September-13, 04:56, said:

Something I've never seen covered in a bridge book is how to get the best results with a partner who has trouble counting to 13, leads 4th best from QJTxx, passes forcing bids, thinks every single 4NT bid is Blackwood and every single 4C bid is Gerber etc etc. There are many such players at my club

Any tips?

I try not to play with such people, because it's obviously frustrating to feel like your results are at the mercy of Captain Clueless over there. If I show up at the club without a partner, I would rather just kibitz one of my friends who is a known decent player.

However, every now and then, I fill in with a pickup partner in order to complete a movement or something like that. And if you agree to play with someone, regardless of their abilities, surely they will give you their best game if you are cheerful, nonjudgmental, and refrain from obvious "pro tactics." Pat them on the back if they do something positive; say nothing at all if they do something ridiculous. A bad player is not the same as a stupid player, and unless you're being paid to get them masterpoints (I have no experience with that scenario, so I can't speak to it), surely many players will be aware of, and resent, being herded and manipulated as some have suggested. Maybe it will boost your short-term results; but you're not really playing with this person for the results anyway, are you? I would rather take my lumps and be thought of as a good partner. The better players who are beating up on you and your CHO will notice that, too, and maybe one of them will ask you to play next time.

I'm not a perfect partner by any stretch, which is one reason I don't play with pickup partners very often. But when I do, I make a concerted effort to remember that the results for that session aren't nearly as important as helping my partner have an enjoyable game. We have all been the weaker partner at some point in our bridge career, try to remember what it felt like. If you absolutely can't refrain from eye-rolling at your partner's gaffes, then do as others have recommended: find another partner, or stay home.

[RunemPard]

Just thought I would reply and say that I am no longer parding him. Thanks for the replies to me.

Our last session got me to the point of suggesting that we no longer play together...

♠52
♥A96
♦AKQT5
♣963

This was a 1♣ opening by him playing 5542.

1C-(1S)-P-(2S)
3D-P-??????????????????

♠QJT9
♥J8753
♦8
♣T74

I chose to give 3NT a try...


Edit:
Okay...I do not remember which major the opponents are bidding. If it was spades, I believe I was debating bidding 3H, 3N, or 4C after this 3D...which made no sense to me. I chose 3NT thinking that partner has a monster...

[barmar]

That's the kind of hand that Eddie Kantar suggests responding with "Where is the hand you had during the bidding?" when dummy comes down.

[mycroft]

"...first time I'm sure what he has in his hand all day."

Seriously, though, the object of a pickup game with a bad partner is to get to the bar afterwards without any yelling or crying having occurred. Anything over that, including results, is a bonus.

Now, if this is your *job*, and the client is paying you, there's other things that have to be done for you to continue to get paid. But I'll let the pros explain that (some good explanations above), because that is the prime reason why I never even considered getting serious enough about bridge to play pro. There's already things I hate doing with computers I used to love before it was my job, no need to add to it.

When "playing pickup with bad partner" was my job, it was filling in a movement as a TD, and so yes, I'd take the "worst" partner available; but my job there was to make them happy to have spent their entry fee, not to win or otherwise make them happy to have paid my session fee. So, back to the "no yelling or crying" bit.

[blackshoe]

There's a difference between playing pickup games and playing with a regular partner. If your regular partner is truly clueless, soon or later you have to either quit playing with him, or kill him. The former is the better option, I think.

[gordontd]

 blackshoe, on 2012-October-09, 16:11, said:

If your regular partner is truly clueless, soon or later you have to either quit playing with him, or kill him. The former is the better option, I think.

I imagine Mr Bennett would have liked Myrtle to have taken this advice.

[P_Marlowe]

 RunemPard, on 2012-September-13, 14:28, said:

Sorry for disagreeing, but those of you saying 3♠ is forcing are assuming I had a hand worthy of a 3♣ bid to begin with.
<snip>

In other words, you told partner, that your hand looked like ..., he did believe you, made a bit asking you to describe your
hand further, he did not limit his hand, since he could expect the auction to proceed, you said ... sry, you should have known
in advance, that you told himu garbage the round before.
- How? Assuming WBF rules for Bridge being in place? Was he supposed to ask you, that you let him peek into your hand, or
throw the table, with the effect, that your hand got spilled on the floor? So that he could learn, that his bid was a nonforcing
bid?

Sry anything else, that followes this line, is not worth being read, and any further discussion is pointless.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Fluffy]

 JLOGIC, on 2012-September-14, 12:05, said:

Best one I had with this is I was playing with a weak partner against the best pair in the room. My partner opened 1N so I passed with 9. She misplayed it to make 1 but the field was in 3N down so it was ok.

lucky bastard, I tried the same this summer and he made the same 10 tricks everyone else did with no play