[Antrax]

I'm not sure I follow. How is the 2♦ bid instrumental in getting N/S to 4♠? What happens in standard bidding?

[mjj29]

 32519, on 2012-September-02, 05:12, said:

The second suit may indeed be the opener’s anchor suit. This will be adequately disclosed in the CC. The defence I am currently working on is aimed at really turning up the heat on the MOSCITO players. If I can sucker them into bidding on level 3 or higher when I have opener’s anchor suit well covered, I can extract a very favourable penalty double for my side.

If you're trying to sucker them into bidding because they don't know you have their anchor suit covered, when you're only bidding because you do - I suspect that you are not disclosing it sufficiently well. Tricking people because they don't know what you've shown is not part of the game

[hrothgar]

 Antrax, on 2012-September-02, 05:26, said:

I'm not sure I follow. How is the 2♦ bid instrumental in getting N/S to 4♠? What happens in standard bidding?

An uncontested MOSCITO auction would probably go

1♥ - 3♠
Pass

Where 1♥ = 4+ Spades, might have a longer minor and
3♠ is a "value" raise promising 4+ card support

Opener has a minimum opening with a balanced hand and would most certainly pass.

After the 2♦ overcall, North now has the option to bid 3♥ as a fit jump. The hand is imperfect for a fit jump (I'd prefer slightly better texture in both Hearts and Spades), however, at the table this is the call that I'd make.

Once South hear's the fit jump, his hand revalues quite a bit. Here once again, I am torn between a simple 3♠ and a more aggressive 4♠. I wouldn't fault either of the bids.

[hrothgar]

 32519, on 2012-September-02, 05:12, said:

These sorts of hands have opened a whole new scope for the defence. I will now dump my 2♥ and 2♠ bids from the original defence and move them into my 2♦ bid. Now I can keep North guessing as to what I really have!

So, you are now advocating a 2♦ overcall that shows any hand with at least 5-4 shape in any two suits, somewhere between 10-31 HCPs, and could include extreme patterns like 7-4-2-0's

I think that you are going to soon find that partner is actually the one who is going to be playing a guessing game.

You've shown a hand that is at least as strong as the MOSCITO opener, while removing any hope of a constructive auction. How, pray tell, do you hope to intelligently determine strain during a contest for the part school while having any hope at intelligently exploring for game?

I don't doubt that there are isolated hands where this method might work well. By and large, I think that this is going to amount to a self inflicted wound.

[32519]

The way this defence to MOSCITO is continuing to develop, your gains from being able to jam the auction in 2M will soon be cut in half. Your gains will now primarily come when the hand in second seat passes i.e. 1x-P-2y-? Now the pressure is on the player in 4th seat to balance or not. Not so easy now.

I bet you a Coke and a hotdog that a defence from the 4th seat can also be developed. All that needs to happen is for your gains to drop far enough below the 50% threshold then you will probably abandon MOSCITO altogether. If there is enough interest to see this developed, it might just be done. So why not start a poll titled: “Do you want to see a 4th seat defence to MOSCITO developed?” Voting options are YES or NO. And then you cast the first vote.

[hrothgar]

 32519, on 2012-September-02, 07:48, said:

The way this defence to MOSCITO is continuing to develop, your gains from being able to jam the auction in 2M will soon be cut in half. Your gains will now primarily come when the hand in second seat passes i.e. 1x-P-2y-? Now the pressure is on the player in 4th seat to balance or not. Not so easy now.

I bet you a Coke and a hotdog that a defence from the 4th seat can also be developed. All that needs to happen is for your gains to drop far enough below the 50% threshold then you will probably abandon MOSCITO altogether. If there is enough interest to see this developed, it might just be done. So why not start a poll titled: “Do you want to see a 4th seat defence to MOSCITO developed?” Voting options are YES or NO. And then you cast the first vote.

No one disputes that you can develop a defense. The question at hand is whether or not you are capable of developing a good one or even understanding what constitutes a good defense.

I firmly believe that the methods that you promoting a significantly worse than traditional methods.
People who adopt your methods will, on average, score significantly worse than they would playing any one of a number of other methods.

From what I can, every single person who has express an opinion about the methods that you have been proposing considers them to be fundamentally flawed.

In what way, shape, or form am I supposed to be deterred from playing MOSCITO?
Realistically, the best that you can hope for is pity or, potentially, that I have a heart attack trying to choke back yet another snicker.

FWIW, I would be happy to post whatever poll you want, provided you can do one simple thing.

Produce a single, solitary member of these forums who believes that your defense have any technical merit.
One person, out of all the posters, who will back you up...

Should be simple enough...

[glen]

Andrew, since there are only 8 of these left in stock, order quickly for Richard:

http://www.amazon.co...t/dp/B000JZ9TEE

[32519]

 Antrax, on 2012-September-02, 05:26, said:

I'm not sure I follow. How is the 2♦ bid instrumental in getting N/S to 4♠?

This is my whole argument AGAINST the defence submitted to the ACBL. If North knows my two suits, there is just no way that he will make the 3-level fit jump. It’s just too easy now to see when a game try is on or not. When North enters the bidding over 2♦, East is under no obligation to enter the bidding as well. Say for example, North bids 2M (instead of 3M), West can still compete to level 3 if so desiring. The 2♦ bid has already indicated this willingness. East can allow West to show where his preference is. The original hand showed a 4072 distribution. With that hand, for sure West will bid 3♦. If West becomes declarer in 3♦, the ♠ finesse is a no-brainer. If N/S compete in 3♠, declarer will immediately recognise that the contract is in jeopardy with 4 low trumps in dummy.

[glen]

 32519, on 2012-September-02, 13:42, said:

This is my whole argument AGAINST ...

This might not be too interesting to the "Appeals Committee" of this thread, perhaps back to now shorten thread?

Btw, if one uses the definition of merit "An aspect of character ... deserving approval or disapproval" (see http://www.thefreedictionary.com/merit), I can confirm, based on Richard's disapproval, that your DOOM has some technical merit.

[hrothgar]

 glen, on 2012-September-02, 13:49, said:

This might not be too interesting to the "Appeals Committee" of this thread, perhaps back to now shorten thread?

Btw, if one uses the definition of merit "An aspect of character ... deserving approval or disapproval" (see http://www.thefreedictionary.com/merit), I can confirm, based on Richard's disapproval, that your DOOM has some technical merit.

I meant " A quality deserving praise or approval; virtue"

[32519]

If it will in any way assist you in coming to grips with the DOOM defence, here’s the deal –
1. Any 5/4 hand pattern overcalled with 2♦ will most likely be,
...a. A GOOD holding in both majors (4-cards in the opponents suit), or
...b. A GOOD 4-card holding in opener’s primary suit and a good 5-card minor (2 of the top 3 honours, or 3 of the top 5)
...c. With both hand types I am trying to lure the MOSCITO players into a trap but still have a playable minor suit. Finessing the opponents suits is a no-brainer.
2. Hand patterns similar to the 4072 already discussed with a GOOD holding in the opponents primary suit. Again I am trying to lure the MOSCITO players into a trap.
3. 5/5 hand patterns will nearly always be Michaels orientated, 5-cards in the other major and an undisclosed minor. Overcaller’s partner is under no obligation to enter the auction over 2M with an unsuitable hand.
4. Any hand with extreme distribution low in HCP. My objective is to keep the MOSCITO players guessing as to what I really have. With extreme distribution and favourable vulnerability I can still make a sacrifice bid if necessary.
5. 5/5 minor suit hand patterns with values will be overcalled 2NT.

Thus far it would appear that the only player starting to understand the thinking behind the DOOM defence is Glen.
Quote: "I can confirm, based on Richard's disapproval, that your DOOM has some technical merit."

There yer go! I’ve met your challenge of finding a single poster in these forums who believes that DOOM is workable. What you also need to bear in mind is the fact that the DOOM defence is still under construction, already having undergone some major improvements. Not too shabby considering this all took place within the space of 3 days.

Quote: "Produce a single, solitary member of these forums who believes that your defense have any technical merit. One person, out of all the posters, who will back you up..."

[Just for the record: DOOM is also an insecticide for destroying mosquito(s) (versus MOSCITO), an obnoxious insect which keeps one awake at night unless despatched].

[hrothgar]

 32519, on 2012-September-03, 01:47, said:

There yer go! I’ve met your challenge of finding a single poster in these forums who believes that DOOM is workable. What you also need to bear in mind is the fact that the DOOM defence is still under construction, already having undergone some major improvements. Not too shabby considering this all took place within the space of 3 days.

Quote: "Produce a single, solitary member of these forums who believes that your defense have any technical merit. One person, out of all the posters, who will back you up..."

Actually, Glen rather specifically stated that DOOM either deserves approval or disapproval.
If you can get him to commit to the former, I'll concede the point

[Trinidad]

Reading comprehension and system design are both very difficult.

Rik

[phil_20686]

 hrothgar, on 2012-September-02, 08:50, said:

One person, out of all the posters, who will back you up...

You know better Richard: lalldonn simply cannot resist defacing an otherwise unanimous poll.....

[glen]

 32519, on 2012-September-03, 01:47, said:

... that DOOM is workable ...

Sadly, while DOOM has the merit of meeting Richard's disapproval, and even though it has a nice name, it is not workable, or more accurately, it would work extremely poorly relative to all reasonable alternatives. In addition, the request was for a "simple and effective defense against moscito", and DOOM is complex and relatively ineffective. In short, keep the name, and spend another three days on a new design.

[32519]

Having now freed up my 2♥ and 2♠ bids, both can be used for a standard weak 2 in the suit bid; 6-card suit and 5-11 HCP NV, 8-11 HCP V. Whatever HCP value you decide to place on each bid is up to the individual. When the opponents have shown ♥, I favour a jump to 2♠ on 3-11 HCP at favourable vulnerability.

This should now keep the purists happy (and Richard and sfi and Free who I believe all suggested this as part of their defence to MOSCITO).

The way DOOM continues to develop your gains from being able to jam the auction in 2M will be cut in half. This defence is still under construction.

Anybody interested in this needs to backtrack both threads to see what has been discarded and what has been retained.

[hrothgar]

 32519, on 2012-September-03, 06:30, said:

The way DOOM continues to develop your gains from being able to jam the auction in 2M will be cut in half. This defence is still under construction.

We'll need to console ourselves with the much greater gains we your 2♦ overcall blows up in your face.

Simple point that you might want ton consider:

The MOSCITO opening isn't all that far removed from any one of a variety of other 4CM major systems. For example, if you look at the expected length of the major being opened, MOSCITO and Acol are pretty close.

Ever wonder why no one ever suggested a turd like your 2D overcall for defending against Acol?
(Hint, the idea isn't that difficult to come up with)

I've never seen anyone suggest a method like this. Even if you consider defenses to strong club openings - where people adopt the most destructive methods - people still use methods like RCO or CRASH where partner has some hope of understanding what suits are being shown.

[32519]

From previous posts, the 2♦ overcaller will make the decision to X or pull 4♠. Pulling will be done with a 4NT bid, X is for penalties.

[32519]

Seeing where DOOM is currently standing in its development, I am the first to admit that the initial posts were truly laughable and fully deserved all the derogatory remarks that they attracted. But they got the process underway.

Almost a year ago now I made enquiries at the South African Bridge Union, as well as the 3 largest bridge clubs within a 100 mile radius from where I live. All 4 categorically insisted that MOSCITO (or any HUM system designed to hamper constructive bidding) was banned outright. From Frances Hinden’s post and the number of MOSCITO enthusiasts in these forums, tells me that there is sufficient opportunity to play it in high(er) level tournaments. How often you get to play your system I have absolutely no idea.

Regardless of Glen’s post, I still intend sending a detailed write-up of DOOM to the BridgeGuys for inclusion on their website. The write-up will include the thinking behind each bid with (probably) 2 example hands for each bid. Then DOOM will be available to everyone, not just the members of these forums.

I found 49 threads on MOSCITO in these forums, yet only a handful of posters were active in the 2 threads here. My guess therefore is that there were plenty of “lurkers” in the background watching developments. To Richard (and everyone else who plays MOSCITO) I have only one request: The first time you encounter DOOM at the table (whether on BBO or anywhere else), let me know. You can either leave a private message on my profile (with a link to the hands in question), or you can send me a private email (also available on my profile). I value my integrity, so you can be assured that no-one else will be told.

Thank you,

Andrew Lee (alias 32519)

[32519]

I’m going to have to update the “Explanatory Notes” on my convention card yet again after BBOs deal generator came up with this gem. Sure the probability of being dealt such a hand are remote. No harm in including it as a possibility though.
The “Explanatory Notes” will now need to include something like this regarding the 2♦ overcall: “Could be a 3-suited hand if the 3rd suit is the opponent's primary suit.”

---

It’s uncertain what North will do with his distribution. A fit jump in 3♣ or a direct jump to 4♥ are both possible. If a 3♣ fit jump is converted to 3♥ by South, West will now get in on the action with 3♠ to raise the stakes.

The DOOM defence is still under construction.