[thebiker]

I have 2 books on Roman Key Card Blackwood, both by Eddie Kantar

(1) Roman Key Card Blackwood - The Untold Story (1991)

(2) Roman Key Card Blackwood - The Final Word (5th Edition) (2008)

My questions are about coping after interference:

Book 1 (Page 95) says that if interference comes at the five level in a lower ranking suit, than the most popular mechansim is DOPI
(double = zero, Pass = one)

It also say if the interference comes higher than the five level of the agreed suit then use DEPO (Double = even, Pass = Odd)

Book 2 (Page 199-201)
Says when the interference is beneath the six level of the agreed suit (and it is a 1430 ask) use DOPI (DOuble = zero, Pass = One)
When the interference is above the six level of the agreed suit (and it is a 1430 ask) use DEPO (Double = even, Pass = Odd)

My question is two part:
(a) Is the Book 2 method the current standard used by experts ?
Did Kantar tighten up his methods to cope better with more situations?

(b) If not what other methods are deemed to be more effective ?

A third queston?
Is there any technical advantage in using DEPO rather than DOPE (Double = odd, Pass = Even)

Thank you in advance for your answers.

regards

Brian Keable
alias "thebiker"

[aguahombre]

Two thoughts:

1) Maybe the final word was meant to be the final word

2) The important thing for us is to decide how our minds work and then use whatever will not lead us to confusion. So, we first have to lose the "1430/0314" mindset. It doesn't mix well with "odd" and "even". Then we can focus on the Acronym, choose one we can relate to, and use it. Ours probably should be DOPE, but we use the other

[ArtK78]

In the context of RKCB and 1430, the method I have always used below 5 of the agreed suit is Double = 1st step ("14"), Pass = 2nd step ("30"), next bid = 3rd step (2 without the queen), and the bid above that as the 4th step (2 with the queen).

Similarly, the method I have always used at or above 5 of the agreed suit is Double = 1st or 3rd step ("14" or 2 without the queen) and Pass = 2nd or 4th step ("30" or 2 with the queen).

I have never heard of using the 6 level as the break point; I always thought it was 5 of the agreed suit. Perhaps it is a typo in the newer volume. Or perhaps someone can enlighten me on why one would want to limit the use of the two step method to above 6 of the agreed suit rather than above 5 of the agreed suit. If one uses the 4 step method above 5 of the agreed suit then one is committed to slam if the 3rd or 4th step is used.

I have no idea what acronyms should be used for these methods. The old acronyms referred to the number of aces shown, assuming that the old-fashioned Blackwood scheme (5♣ showed zero, 5♦ showed 1, etc.) was being used. Hence DOPI (double = zero, Pass = 1, etc.) and DEPO (double = 0 or 2, pass = 1 or 3). But with the 1430 responses the old acronyms don't work as well. If one refers to the number of steps being used, then I suppose the first method above is DIP2 (double = 1st step, pass = 2nd step) and the second method is DOPE (double for odd steps - 1st and 3rd, pass for even steps - 2nd and 4th).

[blackshoe]

ArtK78, on 2012-September-07, 09:42, said:

I suppose the first method above is DIP2 (double = 1st step, pass = 2nd step) and the second method is DOPE (double for odd steps - 1st and 3rd, pass for even steps - 2nd and 4th).

A sensible interpretation of the acronyms. Unfortunately, your opponents will get it wrong, probably even after you explain it.

[SteveMoe]

After discussion whether to use Number of Key cards or Number of Steps as our response theme we found a caveat: Double should show the minimum number of Key cards possible for the bidding. Usually this means 0 Keys. So we compromised over 5♣/♦ interference to show Double = 0 Pass = 1 or 4, Step1 = 3 Step 2 = 2 w/o.

Why should double be Zero? It allow us to stop and double their sacrifice rather than bidding more when we are likley short Aces for Slam.

DEPO at or above 5 of our suit seems slightly better - If you consider ZERO "even".

[Quantumcat]

Way easier to remember is pass = 1st step, double = 2nd step, and step = 3rd step. Over pass, opener can make a double to ask the same thing as his next step would have asked (e.g. to ask about the trump queen).

[Zelandakh]

My first partner and I played DOPI over 5m interference and DEPO over 5♥ or more. It is surely more important just to have some specific agreement than exactly what the agreement is. Pick a level that seems logical to you and remember it. We found 5♥ logical as the cut-off point since 5m does not take any space away whereas 5♥ does. If you play Kickback and follow a similar logic, remember to adjust for different keycard asking bids!

[fromageGB]

In a 1430 context I don't think DOPE meaning odd or even steps is much use. If X shows either 1 ace (ie first step) or 2 aces/KC (ie 3rd step), how is partner going to make a judgement when it is so close? It doesn't make sense. DOPI makes no sense either, if the level is such that when you bid with 2 you are committing to a slam, if partner needed you to have 3 and was going to settle at the 5 level if you had only 2.

A simpler method is make the normal reply that you would have done without interference, if the bid is possible, but if they bid too high for that then X = "I would have bid that" and pass = "my bid would have been lower". My ace responses are different, but if you play an ambiguous 1430 then to cater for the fact that you might have 3 or 4, let the double be restricted to no more than 2. Say over partner's 4NT they bid (5♦) and you have 3 aces. Your normal response would have been 5♦ so now with no aces you would X ("I would have bid that") but with 3 aces you pass. This is forcing, so when partner now doubles for penalty, or bids game, you bid further, which now shows you did not have 1, but 3 or 4. Of course, you can bid artificial steps to distinguish between 3 and 4 if you wish.

No need for these shenanigans if your normal ace responses are unambiguous.

[Zelandakh]

So you are suggesting (spades trumps) that after 4NT - (5♥), Pass = 0 or 1 or 3 or 4? This does not seem like a great idea.

[aguahombre]

Zelandakh, on 2012-September-10, 09:05, said:

So you are suggesting (spades trumps) that after 4NT - (5♥), Pass = 0 or 1 or 3 or 4? This does not seem like a great idea.

I agree that FromageGB's scheme has that major flaw. On the auction Zelandakh is using in my quote, there will be flaws anyway. Like does 5S show the Spade queen and odd, or the Spade queen and even? Or something else?

[Zelandakh]

It would certainly be reasonable to adjust Fromage's suggestion so that Pass = 1 or 4, Double = 0 or 3; 5♠ = 2 or 5, irrespective of the trump queen.

[fromageGB]

Zelandakh, on 2012-September-10, 09:05, said:

So you are suggesting (spades trumps) that after 4NT - (5♥), Pass = 0 or 1 or 3 or 4? This does not seem like a great idea.

Yes, that was my idea. You do not distinguish between 0 or 1. However, 3 and 4 are distinguished by the fact that you will bid again to show them (the pass is forcing). You would not bid again with 0 or 1.

Zelandakh, on 2012-September-11, 00:57, said:

It would certainly be reasonable to adjust Fromage's suggestion so that Pass = 1 or 4, Double = 0 or 3; 5♠ = 2 or 5, irrespective of the trump queen.

This is OK but for the 0 or 3, if partner is unable to deduce the correct number from the bidding so far. If he passes the double, you miss the slam when you have 3. I know that is the inherent problem with the RKCB method, but with the normal reply of 5♦ at least you have the option of bidding beyond partner's sign-off to show the 3.

Maybe an alternative is to pass with 0 or 3 or 4 and double with 1, thereafter showing the 3 or 4 with the first 2 steps over partner's sign-off or double ?