[jillybean]

Hi,
I have been reading the debate about re-opening with a double (new to me), not interested in who is right/wrong but if I am going to use it like some suggest I would like to check on how to bid it.

1♦ - 2♣ - P - P
DBL

Double here is showing shortness in club and no extra values, likely 4-1-4-4, 3-2-4-4 hand?
“shortness” being 0,1,2 ?

Partner must respond (unless freakish club hand, then double is left as penalty) and this is where you play?
If Opps bid again - pass.

Seems nice and simple and allows me another bid where I would otherwise pass.

tyia

[pclayton]

JB:

You don't promise extras with the reopening double, but you could hold them. The longer your clubs, the more strength you should have. I can't ever remember reopening with a double holding three in their suit.

Read some of the posters comments about voids in two of the recent threads. Voids can be troublesome, in the opinion of many, including me.

[jillybean]

Oops, I was meaning
4♦,1♣,4♥,4♠
3♦,2♣,4♥,4♠

[inquiry]

Hi Jilly,

If you have some clubs, say 3 or so... and it comes back to you. Pass your minimum and even some non-minimum hands. Your partner could have made a negative double and didn't. And could have made a raise of your first suit and didn't. This suggest partner is either also long in their suit (unlikley given teh two level overcall), or very weak.

When you are short in their suit, this doesn't necessary mean your partner has gotten any stronger. But you will have support for the other suits. So when you double, your partner will bid something. Maybe he will now raise (really weak), or bid a major (also weak). But now you know. And sometimes, when you are short, partner wiill be looking at good long clubs and was just waiting for you to reopen with a double. Then, you have them, if htat is what partner wanted.

Phil's response is right on target. The more clubs you have, the stronger your hand will have to be to reopen...with the caveat of worrying a little about a void. But at the two level, don't let a void scare you from acting.

Ben

[jillybean]

I had chance to try it out, my hand was too weak to bid 3♣.
♦Jx is a worry but I hope my partner will know I have ♣ and ♠.

Scoring: IMP

---

West North East South

 Pass  Pass  Pass  1♣
 2♥    Pass  Pass  Dbl
 Pass  3♣    Pass  Pass
 3♥    Pass  Pass  Pass

[kgr]

jillybean2, on Nov 23 2004, 03:50 PM, said:

I had chance to try it out, my hand was too weak to bid 3♣.
♦Jx is a worry but I hope my partner will know I have ♣ and ♠. 

Dealer: West Vul: EW Scoring: IMP

♠ 8762 ♥ K ♦ J6 ♣ AKQJ85

West  North East  South

Pass  Pass  Pass  1♣
2♥    Pass  Pass  Dbl
Pass  3♣    Pass  Pass
3♥    Pass  Pass  Pass

I wouldn't DBL here.
Not enough ♦ and your ♣ are too strong. If you partner has ♥ he will pass the DBL and with all you points in ♣ it could well be that you don't have a lot of tricks.
I prefer 3♣ or Pass.
.... but better wait Inquiry's response. He is the expert

[inquiry]

kgr, on Nov 23 2004, 12:48 PM, said:

I wouldn't DBL here.
Not enough ♦ and your ♣ are too strong. If you partner has ♥ he will pass the DBL and with all you points in ♣ it could well be that you don't have a lot of tricks.
I prefer 3♣ or Pass.
.... but better wait Inquiry's response. He is the expert

Well I don't know about the expert part, but I agree double here is clearly wrong. There is something very fishy here. West, who passed intially now bid 2♥ (weak jump overcall). The most common reason for this is that they had a side four card major. Given that they are VULNERABLE, this 2♥ bid will not be made on a five card suit, so the four card spade suit is a reasonable assumption. In fact, I expect WEST to have an excellent six card suit, and since I am looking at the king, it is probably AQT9xx of AQJ9xx. Thus the strong indications are that west likey has four spades. Let's see if we can figure out how many hcp partner will have?

We know they didn't open. West with good distribution will generally have 10 hcp or less, as any 6-4 with 11 will surely open. East in third seat didn't open. But could have as many as bad 11 or so. So their max seems to be 20 hcp, and maybe as few 15. You have 14 hcp yourself, so partner has at least 6 hcp. Your heart king is not typically going to be useful on offense, but might set up the heart jack in partner;s hand (wiht three to the jack), so could be worth a trick on defense).

So if partner has 4♠, he/she is very weak, lets say 6 to 7 points for no negative double.

You should be farily safe at 3♣ not vul. Your diamond jack might be useful in partners suit. Your partner mayeven be short in spades given the biddign so far, so yoiu can ruff spades over there. If he has spades, his honors will be behind WEST's (east will be short), so that is good honor placement And your clubs are so good at imps, it is highly unlikely they will double you.

You could consider bidding 3♣ (or playing good/bad 2NT, I would bid a bad 2NT here). If your partner is stacked in hearts, they will escape to 2♠ or 3♦ if you double anyway. The HUGE down side to bidding 3♣ is that you might push them into a thin game making on a fit. Imagine RHO short in spade, LHO short in clubs, They might win 6♥, 1♠, 2♠ ruff and a diamond. They could have something like...

---

Where their 15 hcp makes game... 3♠, 6♥, 1♦. And of course they could have much better fit. East might have doubleton spade ACE, and they can be ruffing spades.

So, I am sad I openned, but here I pass.

ben

[the hog]

JB, basically the way Phil and Ben described reopening doubles is the way everyone who plays sputnik doubles has to play. The way one other poster plays them is effectively unplayable as there is too much pressure on responder to take some action with a limited hand and a stack in their suit. Playing this style you are better off playing penalty doubles.

Obviously as Phil points out, common sense plays a role in all this - the more cards you have in their suit, the better your hand has to be. If you have a hand with a long suit, like the C hand you posted, you should rebid your cs - either via an immediate 3C or via 2N if you are playing good/bad as Ben suggested.

Ron

[jillybean]

Thanks for the replies.
FYI here is the full hand. Looking at the traveller, in the majority of partnerships North in opened 2♥.

Scoring: IMP

---

[EarlPurple]

Reopening with a double holding a void is bad - defending low-level contracts doubled with a void in their suit is not a good thing to do. SJ Simon wrote about this topic in his book "Why You Lose At Bridge". Of course, in those days they didn't play negative doubles, so the sequence would have been

1♦ 2♣ Dbl (penalties) pass
?

and holding a void he suggests you take it out.

At a high level (eg defending 4♥) having a void can be good - it means partner has quite a few.

So what is the difference? Well, as SJ Simon explains it, at 4♥ you are taking your side suit winners plus any trump tricks that come your way, but you are not trying to make more tricks than the opponents. In order to beat 2♣ by 2 tricks you need to take more tricks than them in a suit where one of you is void. How well do you think it would play in a 4-0 or 5-0 trump fit? You wouldn't normally want to play in one. But that is effectively what you are doing when you are defending a low-level contract doubled.

A singleton is fine - at least you can lead one through declarer's hand once. A doubleton is best. But with a void you can never push through declarer's hand.

Now, as for re-opening the bidding with a weakish hand holding 3 clubs or more, that depends a lot on:

- The form of scoring
- Your methods.

Do you play negative free bids? What do these sequences mean:

1♦ (2♣) 2M (where M = hearts or spades)
1♦ (2♣) Dbl followed by a bid of a major

and are there any hands where partner will want to compete but has to pass now, then pull your re-opening double to 2 of a major?

If the scoring is MP, and you do not play negative free bids, or if the free bids are encouraging but non-forcing, so with slightly weaker hands your partner will have to pass first then bid, it is suggested you re-open with a double more often.

Also beware, though, of how strong your opponents overcalls may be? Are they nearly unlimited in strength? How do your opponents overcall with good one-suited hands? If there is a strong chance that your LHO may be very strong, they may be missing game (in this sequence possibly 3NT) and beware of reopening to push them into it. And even at MP, losing 130 against their 2♣ will score better for you than 150 against NT even if they don't bid to game in NT. (or -110 in clubs better than -120 in 2NT).