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Cold Grand from today's Bocchi - Madala match, board 25

#1 User is offline   TWO4BRIDGE 

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Posted 2012-August-12, 08:10

Bocchi ( North )



Shown is their bidding . [ Maybe you can explain it for me. Where did North show the ♣A ? Edit: and the ♦ KQ for that matter ? ] .

So, how would us mere mortals bid it ? [ The other table stopped in 6D ... making +1 ] .
Don Stenmark
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"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall

" Did someone mention relays? " .... Zelandakh

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#2 User is offline   TimG 

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Posted 2012-August-12, 08:40

In the match I was watching, they made easy work of it after North opened 1♦. Looks like an opening bid to me.
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#3 User is offline   awm 

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Posted 2012-August-12, 10:54

Elianna and I would bid:

Pass - 2♣(1)
2♦(2) - 2NT(3)
3♠(4) - 4♦(5)
4♠(6) - 4NT(7)
5♠(8) - 7♦(9)

(1) Strong artificial
(2) Game force; a 3m response (natural GF) is a bad idea with this pattern
(3) 22+
(4) Both minors
(5) Four card diamonds
(6) Cuebid
(7) 1430 keycard
(8) Two with the queen
(9) Can count tricks, ruffing a club if necessary

Sam and I would have some long relay auction with a lot of alerts to the same contract.

I don't think this is a particularly tough one, even though I wouldn't open the north hand playing standard methods (opening hands like this too often leads to a 3NT contract on light values, where the 5/5 shape is not worth nearly as much as it would be in a suit; holding both majors would be a different story of course).
Adam W. Meyerson
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
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#4 User is offline   lalldonn 

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Posted 2012-August-12, 11:51

How did the other table miss it? This seems like a very easy grand to bid whether north opens or not. Personally it would never occur to me to not open the north hand.
"What's the big rebid problem? After 1♦ - 1♠, I can rebid 1NT, 2♠, or 2♦."
- billw55
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#5 User is offline   Flem72 

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Posted 2012-August-12, 12:07

View PostTWO4BRIDGE, on 2012-August-12, 08:10, said:

Bocchi ( North )



Shown is their bidding . [ Maybe you can explain it for me. Where did North show the ♣A ? ] .

So, how would us mere mortals bid it ? [ The other table stopped in 6D ... making +1 ] .


In these (2N-3S/3N(forced)-4M = stiff, 5-5 m SI) and also 1SNT-3M (= stiff, (45) minors), I like to play that when O chooses a m, R has a game signoff but treats the 4m as a RKCB call, responding around the signoff.
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#6 User is offline   akhare 

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Posted 2012-August-12, 13:05

Reaching 7♦ would a cinch for straube and me, playing strong ♣ with relays.

South opens 1♣ (16+):

1♣ - 2♣ (GF, minors)
2♦ (ask) - 2♠ (at least 5-5 in the minors)
...
foobar on BBO
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#7 User is offline   TheoKole 

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Posted 2012-August-12, 14:18

As north I could use 2NT opener as both minors weak 6 to 10 or strong 18 plus

The bidding would probably go
2NT - 3 ♥ (cue bid forcing to game)
3 ♣ - 3 ♦ (showing fit and establishing trumps)
3 ♠ (cue bid probably short suit) - 4NT (ace asking 1430)
5 ♠ (2 key cards with Q) - 7 ♦ (can count 13 tricks)

Good luck and keep counting,

Theo
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#8 User is offline   TWO4BRIDGE 

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Posted 2012-August-12, 17:32

View Postlalldonn, on 2012-August-12, 11:51, said:

How did the other table miss it? This seems like a very easy grand to bid whether north opens or not. Personally it would never occur to me to not open the north hand.

I don't remember the bidding exactly, but they only made cuebids and no RKC. [ As Justin has said, it is hard to bid a grand w/o RKC ] .
Don Stenmark
TWOferBRIDGE
"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall

" Did someone mention relays? " .... Zelandakh

K-Rex to Mikeh : " Sometimes you drive me nuts " .
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#9 User is offline   TimG 

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Posted 2012-August-12, 20:43

One vugraph table missed the grand with the following auction 2N-6♦.
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#10 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2012-August-12, 20:55

View PostTimG, on 2012-August-12, 20:43, said:

One vugraph table missed the grand with the following auction 2N-6♦.


great auction
blogging at http://www.justinlall.com
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#11 User is offline   SteveMoe 

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Posted 2012-August-12, 21:48

Something perhaps like this in precision:


or this in 2/1:

Be the partner you want to play with.
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#12 User is offline   paulg 

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Posted 2012-August-13, 01:21

The two Scotland pairs both bid the small slam (with the third pair having a bye). This resulted in a gain of 12 imps for the Women (!) and a loss for the Seniors. I don't know their auctions but I suspect that they started 1♦-2NT showing a game-forcing balanced(-ish) hand and the wrong hand ended up in control.
The Beer Card

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#13 User is offline   dake50 

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Posted 2012-August-13, 01:51

Slam try after ask minors must have 3+ controls of CA,DK,SK.
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#14 User is offline   bluecalm 

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Posted 2012-August-13, 03:18

W/e there is to show 22-23 balanced then 3S as minors and it's easy ride from there as S see there are no major suit losers and A♣ completes the hand. I consider it to be very easy grand to bid.

For example:

2C - 2D
2N - 3S
4D - 4S (cuebid)
4N - 5S (2key cards + QD)
7D

13 tricks because partner has at least one 5 card minor.
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#15 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2012-August-13, 03:24

N has an opening hand, all S needs to know is that N has (any 4 cards), KQxxx, Axxx to bid the grand, this is not difficult.

1♦-2♦(inverted)-3♣-4♥(KC)-5♦(2+Q)-7♦ would do
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#16 User is offline   bluecalm 

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Posted 2012-August-13, 03:36

Opening the bidding with N hand is marginal at best. I think most elite players would pass it.
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#17 User is offline   sfi 

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Posted 2012-August-13, 05:36

6 losers, a couple of defensive tricks, and an easy rebid. What's lacking to make this not an opening bid?
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#18 User is offline   sfi 

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Posted 2012-August-13, 05:41

View Postakhare, on 2012-August-12, 13:05, said:

Reaching 7♦ would a cinch for straube and me, playing strong ♣ with relays.


If you can't comfortably reach this grand playing strong club with relays in an uncontested auction, you really need to not be playing that system.
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#19 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2012-August-13, 06:16

Bill Jacobs Fantunes:

2♦(5+♦ 10-13)-2♥(relay)
3♣(natural 4+♣, 0-1♠)- now all responder needs to know is how many keycards so 7 is easy.

And a rule of 20 hand with all the points in the long suits and an obvious rebid is a very comfortable opening bid unless you're playing 2/1, where it's a little more awkward but not much.
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#20 User is offline   bluecalm 

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Posted 2012-August-13, 07:36

Quote

6 losers, a couple of defensive tricks, and an easy rebid. What's lacking to make this not an opening bid?


Losers doesn't matter.
What is lacking is strength. This hand will not be enough opposite many hands partner forces to game with.
I am not saying you can't open I am saying it's not clear at all to open and many players playing standardish systems routinely pass this hand.
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