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4NT on competition

Poll: 4NT on competition (19 member(s) have cast votes)

what is 4NT?

  1. to play (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  2. scrambling (1 votes [5.26%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.26%

  3. slam try (18 votes [94.74%])

    Percentage of vote: 94.74%

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#1 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2012-July-13, 16:13

2♠-double-redouble-3♣ (8-10)
pass- 3♠ - 4♠ - pass
pass- 4NT
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#2 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2012-July-13, 17:10

It can't be scrambling, because we could have bid a forcing 3♦ after 3♣. It can't be natural. because we could have bid a natural 3NT or 4NT after 3♣. I think it's Keycard for clubs.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#3 User is offline   yin970902 

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Posted 2012-July-13, 17:42

A slam try.IMO,
he does neither bid 3nt after partner's 3♣ nor cuebid 3♠ after 2♠.
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#4 User is offline   phil_20686 

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Posted 2012-July-13, 18:30

Slam try, not keycard.
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#5 User is offline   lycier 

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Posted 2012-July-14, 00:16

4nt is exclusion RKCB with voidness of ♠ ,slam try
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#6 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2012-July-14, 02:40

I agree it's keycard or slam try in clubs.
I think it's pointless to argue which - if you have agreed to play 4NT as last train slam try for clubs, it's a slam try. If you haven't, it's keycards.
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#7 User is offline   benlessard 

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Posted 2012-July-14, 10:55

Its slammsih but It cannot be exclusion since we would have jump to 4S rather than 3S.
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#8 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2012-July-16, 07:39

All of the possibilities seem to have a flaw. A Last Train slam try is also flawed since presumably 4♣ instead of 3♠ would have been a slam try in clubs. Of course if that would have been Minorwood then 4NT as LTTC seems to make the most sense. But if 4♣ was a slam try and 4♦ Kickback, what are we left with? In other words, before answering I think we need to know what Doubler's alternatives to 3♠ would have meant.
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#9 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2012-July-17, 06:34

View PostZelandakh, on 2012-July-16, 07:39, said:

All of the possibilities seem to have a flaw. A Last Train slam try is also flawed since presumably 4♣ instead of 3♠ would have been a slam try in clubs. Of course if that would have been Minorwood then 4NT as LTTC seems to make the most sense. But if 4♣ was a slam try and 4♦ Kickback, what are we left with? In other words, before answering I think we need to know what Doubler's alternatives to 3♠ would have meant.



IMO this is exclusion but not with a spade void but with the spade A.
The reason for not jumping to 4s immediately was to see if p could bid 3n with
some spade values (or x 4s if it was bid) ---once p seemed to show no useful
spade values the 4n exclusion bid now seemed justified.

Axx Ax AKQJ Qxxxxx
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#10 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2012-July-17, 08:40

This seems extremely obvious to me, frankly.

If Doubler had first bid 4♣, this would not be a slam try. It would be a simple bump inviting 5♣.
If Doubler had an Exclusion hand, he would bid 4♠ earlier (or 4NT if 4♠ would be RKCB).
If Doubler had a regular old RKCB hand, he would presumably bid whichever of 4NT or 4♦ (or 4♠) is RKCB.
3♠ did not unambiguously agree clubs, as it might have been seeking 3NT, but it unambiguously excluded any other strain except clubs or notrump, IMO.

Thus, 4NT is Last Train. Clubs agreed.



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#11 User is offline   PhilKing 

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Posted 2012-July-17, 18:07

Since I play equal level conversion as non-forcing (eg ♠xx AQxx AQTxx Jx) and a raise to 4♣ as forcing (>>>> better than non-forcing), then I would typically have a good 0463 hand.

What does one do with a non-forcing raise to 4♣? Well, usually just bid 5, but alternatively bid 3♠ intending to Pass 3NT or 4♣. In this scheme, partner's retreat to 4♣ shows a non-descript minimum with no stop.

So it's a lone vote for "scramble".
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#12 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2012-July-17, 20:23

Slam try although when partner holds a moose the natural reaction is to cue and not barge into RKC.
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#13 User is offline   kfay 

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Posted 2012-July-17, 21:20

4NT is keycard, imo. That's what ch00 tells me.
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