[Blofeld]

I overcall and think it's close-ish, but not so close that I wouldn't do it without the ♣J.

[pclayton]

pclayton, on Nov 17 2004, 08:10 AM, said:

If Im playing the simple overcall portion of "Overcall Structure", its automatic.

If I'm not (and I generally don't), I pass:

1: The suit is threadbare
2: My point count is minimal, even adding full value to the AQ98
3: 1♥ over 1♦ takes up very little bidding room. OTOH if I had Qxxxx of spades and AQ98 of clubs and RHO opened 1♣, an overcall would be automatic. I've heard some suggest that an overcall like this should show an opening hand, since its takes up no bidding room.

Wow - other than the name, I don't agree with anything in this thread 3 years later.

[jdonn]

Revived from 2004? Jlall?!?

[kenrexford]

Interesting flash from a past I missed.

I'd overcall. Seven loser hand, just about a minimum for me to open, so enough.

I consider it very close. Not very close to a pass, but very close to a 2♥ overcall instead. Normally, when in doubt, I default to a 2M jump if I am stiff in the other major (discourage that which I do not want to hear). I just really hate my hearts too much at this color.

[cherdano]

Wow, old times.

Jlall, on Nov 16 2004, 09:20 PM, said:

yes and yes

[yes to close] and

Jlall, on Nov 16 2004, 11:30 PM, said:

just a matter of style here.

I have a vague feeling we would get a stronger opinion today.

Anyway, I should be glad I didn't post in this thread, I am sure I would have past at the time.

[mike777]

I guess I have learned nothun...I still say No and NO.
One heart Vul. for me would be a full opening hand. Not a junky 10 or 12 hcp one.

There are alot of styles out there since some bid 1h or 2h I guess here.

Now remake the hand NV and KJT8..xxx....xxx....xxx

[mike777]

The_Hog, on Nov 17 2004, 03:59 PM, said:

Interesting! Bill suggested their might be a divide on different sides of the pond. The Italians would overcall without a second thought. I would bid 1H but consider it very close.

Here is a quote from Paul Marston on this hand:

"I am surprised that the view of this group is so crusty.
Consider this likely hand for partner:
Kxxx
Kxxx
xx
Axx
For all you passers, the bidding goes 1D - p - 1S - p - 2S, which presumably
gets passed out. That makes about 110. You probably have 140 in hearts
(maybe 620!). Who's to blame?
At the other table it goes 1D - 1H - 1S - 3H - 3S - p - 4S - X. That goes
for 500. Do you blame your teammates? You shouldn't: opener overbid to show
spade support (as we all do) and responder took a close push to a game. On a
good day this would make but today it was wrecked by the poor position of
the diamonds and the bad trump break. The trouble is that the opponents with
your cards forced your teamates to guess and, unluckily, they guessed wrong.
So you lose 12 imps instead of the 6 imps you were already slated to lose.
You don't need a heart fit for bidding to be right. Give partner: Kxxx, xx,
xx, AQxxx. This time the other table bids 1D - 1H - 1S - 2C - 2S - 3C and
the opponents with your cards have the plus score they should have while you
still lose 110.
You can piously justify your pass of 1D by counting your points or examining
the quality of your heart spots but the truth is that you are just a stodgy
old bugger who never bids. You have failed to take an almost no-cost
opportunity to bring partner into the action and you have paid the price. If
you have partnership rules that prevent you from overcalling on this hand
then you should quickly change the rules."

Interesting and thank you for following up results..do you have the full deal?

[the hog]

mike777, on Aug 15 2007, 07:07 AM, said:

The_Hog, on Nov 17 2004, 03:59 PM, said:

Interesting! Bill suggested their might be a divide on different sides of the pond. The Italians would overcall without a second thought. I would bid 1H but consider it very close.

Here is a quote from Paul Marston on this hand:

"I am surprised that the view of this group is so crusty.
Consider this likely hand for partner:
Kxxx
Kxxx
xx
Axx
For all you passers, the bidding goes 1D - p - 1S - p - 2S, which presumably
gets passed out. That makes about 110. You probably have 140 in hearts
(maybe 620!). Who's to blame?
At the other table it goes 1D - 1H - 1S - 3H - 3S - p - 4S - X. That goes
for 500. Do you blame your teammates? You shouldn't: opener overbid to show
spade support (as we all do) and responder took a close push to a game. On a
good day this would make but today it was wrecked by the poor  position of
the diamonds and the bad trump break. The trouble is that the opponents with
your cards forced your teamates to guess and, unluckily, they guessed wrong.
So you lose 12 imps instead of the 6 imps you were already slated to lose.
You don't need a heart fit for bidding to be right. Give partner: Kxxx, xx,
xx, AQxxx. This time the other table bids 1D - 1H - 1S - 2C - 2S - 3C and
the opponents with your cards have the plus score they should have while you
still lose 110.
You can piously justify your pass of 1D by counting your points or examining
the quality of your heart spots but the truth is that you are just a stodgy
old bugger who never bids. You have failed to take an almost no-cost
opportunity to bring partner into the action and you have paid the price. If
you have partnership rules that prevent you from overcalling on this hand
then you should quickly change the rules."

Interesting and thank you for following up results..do you have the full deal?

Jeez Mike, that was 3 years ago!! I don't even know why this thread resurfaced. Justin must have been totally bored last night.

The only comment I can make is that today virtually every strong player I know would overcall on this hand unless he/she was brought up in a totally old fashioned school.

[Free]

Wow, I also don't agree with my response anymore! I guess times change

[han]

Someone has been studying old threads, this was an interesting one. At the time I probably would have passed, now I'd always overcall. Perhaps reading the forums for 3 years has chaanged my (bridge-) life?

[Fluffy]

Wow I can barely understand what I was saying lol.

My bridge hasn't changed that much since. I take a deeper look on honnor allocation but that's all.

[mr1303]

I'm ashamed to say my position has now changed as well. I'd be there with 1H like a shot.

[keylime]

I overcall here as well, just because I can rebid 2D naturally here. I used to pass this like a flash, but enough bad scores has changed my views about this.

[skjaeran]

Seems like a more or less automatic (but close to minimum) 1♥ overcall to me. I wasn't in the forums in 2004, but would have made the same reply then.

[sceptic]

I overcall 1 heart

and if I had zero points and 4 hearts, if my pard over called 1 heart I would be in with 3 hearts like a shot

I think this is fun bridge but what do I know LOL

[hanp]

whereagles, on Nov 17 2004, 01:52 PM, said:

- Diamond lenght makes heart fit more likely.

See what happens when you say things like that?

[Jlall]

2004 jlall thought this was close...wow. Even in 2007 when I necro'd this the first time I didn't say anything about 2004 jlall's answer!

2009 jlall would like to go on record as saying OBV 1H!

[Phil]

NECRO!

Wow, look at pclayton. What a friggin idiot with that stupid overcall structure plug.

Auto 1♥.

[TimG]

pclayton, on Aug 14 2007, 05:29 PM, said:

pclayton, on Nov 17 2004, 08:10 AM, said:

If Im playing the simple overcall portion of "Overcall Structure", its automatic.

If I'm not (and I generally don't), I pass:

1: The suit is threadbare
2: My point count is minimal, even adding full value to the AQ98
3: 1♥ over 1♦ takes up very little bidding room. OTOH if I had Qxxxx of spades and AQ98 of clubs and RHO opened 1♣, an overcall would be automatic. I've heard some suggest that an overcall like this should show an opening hand, since its takes up no bidding room.

Wow - other than the name, I don't agree with anything in this thread 3 years later.

2 more years and you don't even agree with the name.

[Phil]

TimG, on Aug 11 2009, 11:38 AM, said:

pclayton, on Aug 14 2007, 05:29 PM, said:

pclayton, on Nov 17 2004, 08:10 AM, said:

If Im playing the simple overcall portion of "Overcall Structure", its automatic.

If I'm not (and I generally don't), I pass:

1: The suit is threadbare
2: My point count is minimal, even adding full value to the AQ98
3: 1♥ over 1♦ takes up very little bidding room. OTOH if I had Qxxxx of spades and AQ98 of clubs and RHO opened 1♣, an overcall would be automatic. I've heard some suggest that an overcall like this should show an opening hand, since its takes up no bidding room.

Wow - other than the name, I don't agree with anything in this thread 3 years later.

2 more years and you don't even agree with the name.

I've been on here way too long if I diss my old posts twice in the same thread lol.