[fito]

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Club level, not on-line play.

West hesitates not for a long time, could be for 5 seconds, but playing without screens this few second are more than enough. East is a 20 year player, not a good player, but she wins once in a week in her club. West is a 10-12 years same level player. They are not a experts, but nor beginners, and they play together at least once in a week, and play negative doubles.

Do you think than this break in tempo is enough to produce UI? if yes, do you allow 3♠ bidding? If yes, do you agree with the final pass of West? If you need more information, just ask me. Your comments. Thx.

[trevahound]

fito, on 2012-June-18, 15:33, said:

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Club level, not on-line play.

West hesitates not for a long time, could be for 5 seconds, but playing without screens this few second are more than enough. East is a 20 year player, not a good player, but she wins once in a week in her club. West is a 10-12 years same level player. They are not a experts, but nor beginners, and they play together at least once in a week, and play negative doubles.

Do you think than this break in tempo is enough to produce UI? if yes, do you allow 3♠ bidding? If yes, do you agree with the final pass of West? If you need more information, just ask me. Your comments. Thx.

For me, a 5-6 second pause is "in tempo" bidding in a competitive auction, and any faster a pass by responder transmits UI to opener. I mean, count silently to 5 or 6 while staring at your imaginary hand and then pass -- to me this is in tempo and proper, as you could be completely bust or with a difficult hand, and partner will be none the wiser, obviously so long as you do this when completely bust as well.

I think because you posted this here that this pair would call too quickly when bust, and this 5-6 seconds did transmit some values to opener. If that's the case that values were transmitted via the BIT, then certainly that BIT suggests bidding on or doubling. Opener's hand and the auction show that partner couldn't be waiting for a double, so bidding 3♠ seems like a logical alternative made more attractive by the UI. A poll is a better way to determine that than one person's opinion.

If I were west, and apparently we weren't playing negative doubles here, I would raise partner's 3♠ to 4♠, but that also is pollable. If UI is established as available, I don't think West has any, and can freely choose amongst LAs. Or is the argument that W has UI based on a belief that E has already acted on UI, and may not have his call?

[CSGibson]

This whole thing stinks. E finds a vul 3♠ bid with her 7 loser hand, and W doesn't raise with his stiff heart, ♦A and ♣K? It smells like W thinks his slow pass already described his values well.

Everyone sitting E-W goes to jail, I don't allow 3♠, and N-S are going to be +140 in 3♥, E-W get a warning on top, if not a PP, depending on whether they have previously been found associated with unethical behavior like this.

[Vampyr]

trevahound, on 2012-June-18, 15:56, said:

For me, a 5-6 second pause is "in tempo" bidding in a competitive auction, and any faster a pass by responder transmits UI to opener. I mean, count silently to 5 or 6 while staring at your imaginary hand and then pass -- to me this is in tempo and proper, as you could be completely bust or with a difficult hand, and partner will be none the wiser, obviously so long as you do this when completely bust as well.

The trouble is, this hand was played in one of those unfortunate jurisdictions that do not include competitive auctions in their stop-card regulations.

[Cyberyeti]

CSGibson, on 2012-June-18, 16:02, said:

This whole thing stinks. E finds a vul 3♠ bid with her 7 loser hand, and W doesn't raise with his stiff heart, ♦A and ♣K? It smells like W thinks his slow pass already described his values well.

Everyone sitting E-W goes to jail, I don't allow 3♠, and N-S are going to be +140 in 3♥, E-W get a warning on top, if not a PP, depending on whether they have previously been found associated with unethical behavior like this.

Agree with most of this, although I don't think it's an automatic raise to 4, you may not be offering much to partner on a trump lead (which I think beats 3♠ on the actual layout).

Of course W will say that he'd lead a club v 3♥ and it's not auto to make it.

[Lobowolf]

West expects that after a 5-6 second pass, East is going to raise himself to 4♠ with a slightly better hand?

[CSGibson]

Cyberyeti, on 2012-June-18, 17:27, said:

Agree with most of this, although I don't think it's an automatic raise to 4, you may not be offering much to partner on a trump lead (which I think beats 3♠ on the actual layout).

Of course W will say that he'd lead a club v 3♥ and it's not auto to make it.

I don't care if its auto to make it or not. Offenders do not get the benefit of the doubt. Heck, if he complains at all about my decision it would probably impact my feelings toward awarding a procedural penalty.

[blackshoe]

I hope you're not saying you would award or not award a PP on the basis of anything other than whether the offense rates one.

[CSGibson]

blackshoe, on 2012-June-18, 22:30, said:

I hope you're not saying you would award or not award a PP on the basis of anything other than whether the offense rates one.

Perhaps that's why I don't have the authority to award PPs.

[gnasher]

Cyberyeti, on 2012-June-18, 17:27, said:

Of course W will say that he'd lead a club v 3♥ and it's not auto to make it.

If EW wanted the right to demonstrate their defensive cardplay skills, they shouldn't have put themselves in a position where the director was defending for them.

[Cyberyeti]

CSGibson, on 2012-June-18, 22:00, said:

I don't care if its auto to make it or not. Offenders do not get the benefit of the doubt. Heck, if he complains at all about my decision it would probably impact my feelings toward awarding a procedural penalty.

My point was that I believe in the UK you could award a 20/80 split of -1/= if you wanted, not that I would in this case, he's leading a spade every time.

[ahydra]

I disallow 3S based on UI from the hesitation, adjust score to 3H= by NS. No need to go crazy with warnings/PPs, especially in a club game.

ahydra