[RunemPard]

Hello,

I am here to ask about opinions regarding the use of these bids in use w/ a Multi 2♦. My goal is to make better preemptive uses of openings above the multi. These openings will be used at a local club ranging from novice-expert.

Currently we are using 2♥/2♠ as 11-14 total points (doubletons are not regarded quite as much). A NV, well supported 6 card ♥/♠ suit may be opened at the 3 level. 2N is a 5/5 ♣/♦ preempt, which we have as of yet had a chance to use. I like this bid a lot, but it's frequency is quite low. 3♣/3♦ openings are 6 card suit preemptive.

I really look forward to replies, as I have been throwing some of these ideas around in my head for awhile, but never really tried to put anything together.

Don


Edit: I have been doing some changing to the bids. My more current openings are...

1♣: 12-14 NT | 18-19 NT | 12-19 5+♣ | 20+ U/B | 22+ NT
1♦: 12-14 NT | 18-19 NT | 12-19 5+♦
1♥: 12-19 | 5+♥
1♠: 12-19 | 5+♠
1N: 15-17 NT
2♣: Suggestions? (Mini-Roman?, 18-19 NT or 18-19 5+cM?, Precision style 2♣?, what else?)
2♦: Multi | weak ♥/♠ | 18-19 long ♣/♦ | 20+ 5+♣/♦ | 20-21 NT
2♥: Flannery | 11-15 (5♥/4♠)
2♠: 8-11 ♣+♦ (5/5) | ♥+♠ (5/5) | 12-14 7♥/7♠ (AKxxxxx, AQJxxxx, KQJxxxx)
2N: 12-14 | 5/5 ♦/♥/♠ (Just a thought...need input/suggestions)
3♣: 6-10 | 6+♣
3♦: 6-10 | 6+♦
3♥: 6-10 | 6+♥ (solid ♥) | 7+♥
3♠: 6-10 | 6+♠ (solid ♠) | 7+♠
3N: Gambling | AKQxxxx ♣/♦

I am debating using the 18-19 NT or 18-19 5+cM for 2C. This allows for 1C/D-xy-2N to mean whatever I want it to mean. Strong hand+support, strong unbalanced ♣s, etc. 1H/1S openings drop to 12-17 HCP also. 1H-xy-2S also becomes 16-17 reverse rather than 16-19. This includes 1H-xy-2H-2S being that Flannery is in use.



My original ideas are below...feel free to comment on them as well.

I am debating using something like this, but want to see your thoughts on how useful the bids may be, how often they will come up, and negative/postiive effects they may bring to the system as a whole. Also, at our local club, many play a 2N bid as preemptive 5/5 D/H/S NOT C. I do not find this to be very useful and tough to try and find a major fit holding 3D, 1/2H, and 3S.

2♥: Flannery - 11?(12-15 HCP) 5♥+4♠
2♠: 5/5 ♦+major - preemptive (2N is forcing and asks which major partner holds)
2N: 6+ minor - preemptive
3♣: 5/5 minors - preemptive
3♦: 5/5 majors - preemptive

PROS (IMO)
-I love the idea of including Flannery w/ Multi at the same time.
-I get to include a preemptive bid for all 5/5 holdings.

CONS (IMO)
-The 2S opening may have issues finding the major fit in a part-score battle.
-The 2N opening may lose some good sacrifice opportunities. If moved to 2S to allow 2N to be forcing, 2N is open for opps. Having the current 2S bid at 2N also removes the ability to show which major is held w/o going past 3D.
-We may find ourselves too high in a 3H/S contract where most are playing at the 2 level.

BOTH? NOT SURE...
-The 11-14 TP current bid is not usually extremely common. I do like it's constructive/preemptive values, but is it worth it?

[straube]

2D-many regard the multi bid as a weakness because partner doesn't know which major you have right away and the opponents are afforded extra chances to do something (including penalize you) while he figures this out. The idea of 2D multi is that the openings of 2H and 2S are freed up to show other things.

2H-as Flannery is fine and many play this. OTOH, you're a little higher than had you opened 1H and it's not difficult to find spades if responder is allowed to bid them with four. I've never seen much advantage in Flannery.

2S-as a major and diamonds is a really bad idea. You hopefully want to play in the major, but partner doesn't know which major you have and your bidding is forced to the 3-level.

2N-as a preempt in a minor is poor for the same reason as 2D multi is poor. You give the opponents extra chances to bid against you and possibly double you.

3C-as minors is good...except that it requires you to give up a natural 3C preempt (so it's bad)

3D as majors is poor-you are up too high again.

[RunemPard]

Thanks for the input. I also understand that Multi as a bid is not much of a positive, which is why I want to work on bids it is opening up. My thoughts are that playing against mostly intermediate players, preemptive/distributional bids are the way to go. Do you know of any good conventions that I can ponder over?

[RunemPard]

http://www.bridge-wi...onvent/Matt.htm

Anybody have any experience with this convention?

[RunemPard]

Also, instead of making a new thread, I will post this here.

We play 3/3 minors(inverted), w/ a 15-17 NT. I have been playing around with the idea of completely ditching 2C and making 1C one round forcing. (12-14 balanced, 12-14 w/ distributional values, 18-19 balanced, 22+ balanced, or 20+ unsuitable for other openings.

1C-1D would need to be a negative forcing bid, or a GF hand w/ diamonds opposite a 12-14 balanced hand. We would also require a signal to show 2C openings after 1C-xy-??. My thoughts were to turn 2D into the signal. We lose the ability to show a reverse in the minors, however.

Edit: This would work rather well w/ a weak NT also. 1C*-1D* auction, we have either distributional values or a 15+ NT hand. Less risk of being thrown in a bad contract.

[RunemPard]

This one really interests me as well...
http://www.bridge-wi...nt/Opt2bids.htm

[rbforster]

RunemPard, on 2012-May-26, 12:47, said:

This one really interests me as well...
http://www.bridge-wi...nt/Opt2bids.htm

Along these lines, how about this?

2♦ - weak two, or 5/5 ♦♣ or ♦♠. Then 2♥ invites, with
........2♠ natural 5/5
........2NT good weak two
........3♣ natural 5/5
........3♦ poor weak two

2♥ - weak two, or 5/5 ♥♣ or ♥♦. Then 2♠ invites, with
........2NT good weak two
........3♣ natural 5/5
........3♦ natural 5/5
........3♥ poor weak two

2♠ - weak two, or 5/5 ♠♣ or ♠♥. Then 2NT invites, with
........3♣ natural 5/5
........3♦ good weak two
........3♥ natural 5/5
........3♠ poor weak two

This gets you all the 5/5's and weak two's in all but clubs, plus you actually have the suit you open which is lots better than transfer preempts for annoying your opponents. You won't have as much precision in your asks as the 4 steps for Ogust, but you'll have a lot more frequency. Probably that means you want the 5/5 hands to be "good" by weak two standards so responder with an invite can consider bidding game with a fit given there isn't a bid for good vs bad values on these. It's possible you can handle some of these issues by having various higher pass/correct responses besides step+1.

[rbforster]

Just to follow up on with some probabilities, expressed as a % of all possible hands, we have:

1.76% a "normal" 4-10 hcp weak two 2M (no 4OM)
1.50% a "normal" 2♦ 4-10 hcp (no 4M)
0.93% pair of 5/5 hands, two possible suit pairs like D+C or D+S, with 4-10 hcp (5521, 5530, 6511 6520)
0.66% pair of 5/5 hands as above, but 7-10 hcp

This means that depending on the strength range you allow for your 5/5's, you'd be looking at increasing the frequency of your weak two opening by about +40% to +60%.

[Cthulhu D]

2C as 4-4 minors is going to cause oppo heart palpitations, but you can put the "any 5/5" hands in with the 18-19 balanced hand in 2C

Writeup page 20 here: http://users.abo.fi/...ridge/bclub.pdf

If you do this, I'd suggest taking the strong option out of the 2D multi and just making 2NT natural 20-21. Though going crazy is still an option. 2S a 4-5 spades and 5 cards in a minor?

[RunemPard]

Thanks for the posts..May I ask if you have a program to calculate odds or are very good at probability math? I have been looking online to determine odds of hand type/strength coming up, but no luck. My probability math is not so strong other than a coin flip is 50/50, 2 is 25/75...lol

[RunemPard]

And thank you very much for that link Cthulhu D. That is exactly what I have been looking for to know how to use a natural/strong 1C properly.

I am also debating using a weak NT in the future to give the 1C opening better value. Although, 1C*-1D* holding a balanced 12-14 opposite a 0-3 garbage hand does not petrify me.

[RunemPard]

Been doing some thinking about having 18-19 NT / 18-19 H/S as a 2C opening. The main issue is finding 4/4 fits that cannot go to game. My thoughts are to use 2D as a positive waiting bid while 2H/2S are P/C. I am not very fond of this, but I can see it working fine. How useful using this as 2C is the question though.

[dake50]

Pleased to read your thoughts. So many posters don't
research their ideas so often rehash other system schemes.
You have looked and high-lighted your preferred.
That's refreshing.
I'm a wrong one to ask about 2-level light distributional
openings because I bid light 1M bids - 4xM, may Canape
MAF, Majors Always First. My 2-bids fit that scheme's holes.
But I did run intents of bids through my head as you.

[Cthulhu D]

To calculate hand frequencies you want "deal"

bridge.thomasoandrews.com/deal/

[rbforster]

RunemPard, on 2012-May-27, 14:21, said:

Thanks for the posts..May I ask if you have a program to calculate odds or are very good at probability math? I have been looking online to determine odds of hand type/strength coming up, but no luck. My probability math is not so strong other than a coin flip is 50/50, 2 is 25/75...lol

I did the exact calculations with the help of some programs I wrote. Now it's easy to just look up the results .

[perko90]

If I were using the multi 2♦, I would use the Polish style 2-suited preempts, with 2♥ showing ♥'s + another and 2♠'s showing ♠'s and a minor (5-5 or better shape). However, I know I don't share your enthusiasm for Flannery. But if 2♥'s were absolutely reserved for Flannery, then perhaps 2♠'s would be as above and 2NT would be 5-5 in 2 suits out of ♣ / ♦ / ♥.