[Rain]

Which is better? Having 2 singletons or a void and a doubleton?

Thanks

Rain

[Chamaco]

Rain, on Nov 16 2004, 08:35 AM, said:

Which is better? Having 2 singletons or a void and a doubleton?

Thanks

Rain

Ciao Rain !!

There is no universal rules.

It depends on the hand opposite to the singletons or void + doubleton hand.

The value of shortnes (void, singleton,doubleton) is to be able to ruff losers.

So If you have losers in a suit, shortness in dummy is valuable, otherwise not.

If you have xxxx or Axxx opposite a singleton it is great (1 or no losers)
If you have KQJTx opposite a singleton, it is no added value (the singleton won't help ruffing losers).
Even worse is the case of a tenace suit with minor honors, such as: KJTxx opposite a singleton or void (cannot make full use of th tenaces by repeating finesses)

If you have Axxx opposite a void it is worse than opposite a singleton (in the void case usually A does not discard losers , so it is almost wasted).


So if dummy has shortness in 2 different suits (void + doubleton OR 2 singletons), many times it will happen that the shortness in one of the 2 suits is welcome (weak suit, you'll be able to ruff losers), whilst the other suit will be strong, so the hortness in the second suit will be more of a liability.


Go Singapore go !!

[Flame]

Jlall, on Nov 16 2004, 04:10 AM, said:

if i picked up a random 6-5 hand i would prefer 6-5-2-0 to 6-5-1-1

Me2

[MarceldB]

Chamaco, on Nov 16 2004, 10:55 AM, said:

here is no universal rules.

Your comment is clear.

But lifting this question in the framework of a relay-sequence (65, 74 shape) it is really important when the relayer has looser(s) in the short suit(s).

1-1 diviation will not harm, but the wrong doubleton does.

Reason why in case of a final distribution relay I use:

step 1 = void in lowest side suit
step 2 = void in highest side suit
step 3 = with an 1-1 diviation (and event. zoom in case of lack of bidding space)

[joker_gib]

Jlall, on Nov 16 2004, 04:10 AM, said:

if i picked up a random 6-5 hand i would prefer 6-5-2-0 to 6-5-1-1

Absolutely !

You only need 2 aces for slam with a 6-5-2-0 !

[Free]

In relay sequences I prefer 6511 since it stops 1 or 2 steps lower, but in general I prefer 6520 and play in my doubleton to ruff some losers from that void

[Chamaco]

In "blind" mode I'd pick a 6511.

Void+ doubleton has a higher impact: void can be a GREAT plus or BIG liability, so it is much more likely to impact favourably (doubleton opposed to AK, void opposed to xxxx) or unfavourably (void opposed to pard's values, whereas the doubleton is opposed to our losers).

Two singletons have a higher probability that at least one of the 2 is the "right" singleton.

When the void is the "right" void, it can make the value of our hand go to heavn (that's why we are so enthusiastic! ), but it has less probability to occur.

[Fluffy]

6520 makes the defence harder, and may power up a partner´s king, on the other sidee it may make useless an Ace, but only if opponents guess the lead so to me 6520 is better.

There is also the fact than with 6520 you will hardly get a ruff on defence, but with 6511 you can try a singleton lead :-P

[Deanrover]

The nice thing about having two singletons is that the enemy will see your first singleton, then think "She has one singleton, therefore another is unlikely" and consequently misplay.

[mikestar]

Zar estimates 6520 as 1 Zarpoint (=1/5 trick) stronger, most authorites rate them equal. I agree with the majority.

6520 is better is if partner's length/stregth is opposite the doubleton, worse if it is opposite the void (which is somewhat more likely). 6511 usually has one right stiff and one wrong one.

[inquiry]

6520 is better in my opinion.

Opposite 6520, either ace could be useful (if they pick wrong suit to lead, if you have Kx in the doubleton and an entry). In addition, opposite 6520, the king in the doubleton suit is useful (or potentially useful).

[MickyB]

Thomas Andrew's Double Dummy Analysis says that 6520s are about 0.15 tricks better than 6511s, where the singletons/doubleton are small cards. It also says that 6520s are slightly worse at defending NT contracts and slightly better at defending suit contracts, but I suspect that the latter is biased by partner finding opening leads into our void that he would not find at the table.

[junyi_zhu]

Rain, on Nov 16 2004, 08:35 AM, said:

Which is better? Having 2 singletons or a void and a doubleton?

Thanks

Rain

For 1-1, you need two aces from partner to cover your losers.
For 2-0, you need either two aces or the right AK to cover your losers.
So 2-0 has more chance to be covered, that makes 2-0 a slightly better
hand than 1-1 in offense. Also, if you need one cover card,
the right KQ in your doubleton suit would cover one loser, and KQ are useless
for 1-1 shape, also the right king can cover 1/2 losers. Still, the difference is
not big, a lot of work needs to be done in bidding, including showing your position
of the void or not showing your poisition of the void.

For defence, when defnding against NT, you'd show up your void at the first trick,
in the suit, so declarer can have a better idea of the distribution of that suit,
for 1-1, you disclose your shape at the second round. When defending against suit, partner needs to find your void to give you a potential ruff for 2-0 case.