[nigel_k]

The other advantage of strong NT in 3rd and 4th is that you can have auctions that go 1NT-3NT .

[Wackojack]

 awm, on 2012-May-30, 19:21, said:

The more difficult situations come when you have more length in hearts. For example:

♠KJxxx
♥QTxx
♦Kxx
♣x

1♣ - Pass - 1♠ - 2♥ - Pass - Pass to you...

If you pass, you can easily miss a game opposite a strong notrump. If you double, you are fine if partner has a strong notrump (although you might've liked to defend, and now you never can, because partner will not have enough hearts to leave your double in)... but if partner has an unbalanced hand with clubs you could be in serious trouble.

The main issue is that there exist hands in this sort of auction where:
1. You have too many hearts to make a legitimate takeout double.
2. You aren't strong enough to issue a real invite.
3. Your chances in 2NT opposite an unbalanced min are poor as you may hold only 20-22 hcp combined.
4. You are too strong to pass opposite a strong notrump.

There are many slightly-less-bad versions of the hand I gave, with shapes like 5332, 5422, 4342, 4351 (sure, the latter two might be 1♦ responses in an up-the-line approach).

I remember Fred got into this debate in this forum some time ago and said that support doubles did not go with weak no trump. So thanks Adam for reminding me. So you have to support with 3 after intervention with a balanced 15-17 and double with 2. Is this a down side? I hear the arguments both ways.

[benlessard]

IMO 1Nt in 4th seat is not just good its awesome. It might make sense for "Strg Notrumper" to open weak Nt in 4th seat, it make no sense at all for "weak notrumper" to play a strong Nt in 4th seat. The fact that in 4th seat you are more likely to be 15-17 than 12-14 is not really relevant for me.

The strenght of a weak NT is the ability to block 1 level overcall while the main weakness is getting doubled. 4th seat (or being W vs red) is simply the best seat for weak NT. Go ask a couple of experienced weak Nt players about playing strong instead of weak in 4th seat and Im fairly sure that the majority will tell you that Its a poor idea.

I strongly disagree about not playing support X if playing a weak Nt. However some hands with 3 trumps must bid 2M rather than make a support X because they are maximum.

IMO maximum strong NT with 4 trump give support at 3M, minimum strong Nt with 4 trumps, unbalanced with 4 trumps & and maximum strong NT with 3 trumps bid 2M. Minimum hands with 3 trumps make a support X.

Maximum blanaced hands without 3 in partner suit usually can bid 2Nt. If you only have 2 card for partner and xxx in the opps suit your hand is not that good anyway and passing with 16-17 didnt pose me that much problems IRL.

[buff]

Much of this has been previously mentioned. I’ve played a weak notrump for ages, and I think on balance, it is a winning method. I prefer to use an 11-14 range (when vul, just the ‘nice’ 11’s :-) ) because that boosts the frequency by 30% or so (to about 3X that of a 15-17 range), and permits some system creativity by a passed hand responder, because he will no longer be interested in game, just the optimal partial (we open almost all 11’s whether balanced or not, so responder with < 11 will seldom be strong enough to invite). Here are some observations/suggestions:

Play “Dutch doubleton” 1C, where you stuff all your 15-19 balanced hands into 1C, including 3=3=5=2 (maybe even 5M(332)?). This blurs somewhat your 1C opener, but sharpens your 1D opener, which is always unbalanced and usually 5+. I like to play a forcing 1NT response to 1D, with a semi-forcing 2C opener response with good hands.

Play Transfer Walsh over 1C. I think TW adds more value to weak notrumpers than strong notrumpers. TW for weak notrumpers has two significant benefits. It right-sides most contracts when opener has the 15-19 balanced hands (‘standard’ bidders usually wrong-side when balanced 18-19 so that is a clear win for TW, and TW at least ‘ties’ the siding issue compared to a 15-17 1NT opener), plus you get the additional ‘raise’ of the transfer suit. I like to use the 1-level acceptance as 18-19 4-fit, and the 2-level as 15-17 4-fit, but I can understand reversing those, or using one for an unbalanced 3-fit raise, or maybe for an unbalanced 4441 raise, or maybe for a relay sequence, or whatever … the point is, you get one more raise-type than standard bidders. We use responses of 1S = no majors, 1NT = GF clubs, 2C = GF diamonds, but other methods are possible.

You need a good run-out system when they double 1NT. You will extremely rarely get spanked so badly it hurts. The result that hurts most at matchpoints is –200, against a partial. My theory is this: since the partner of the doubler cannot be sure how strong the doubler is (usually played with a huge range 13+ to anything), partner will often (too often) pull the double when weakish and/or unbalanced, so I want to give that guy the maximum chance to make that mistake. I use Pass to force XX (advancer mulls) intending to (1) sit and play or (2) use DONT-type runouts with two suits (advancer re-mulls). I use immediate XX (advancer mulls) to force 2C, responder holding a pass/correct weak one-suiter (advancer re-re-mulls). I use immediate transfers from 2D = diamonds to 2S = clubs, with constructive single-suiters that partner can play at the 3-level if need be, with an appropriate hand.

You need a good system when they compete over 1NT. Defenders seem to use Capp a lot, which imo is about the dumbest convention ever, so I welcome the use of it. Over their 2C bid (some 1-suiter) we want to disrupt them whenever possible, so with ’2-suiters’ we X with both majors 54 or better, 2D with any single suiter (forcing 2H by opener, pass/correct), 2M = 4M5m, 2N (can’t be Leb here because overcaller’s suit not known) shows xx54, 3C shows xx45. We use the same system over DONT X with 2C = 54 MM. Responder can always Pass and use Leb after overcaller reveals his suit. As a general rule, we play negative doubles and Leb against ‘natural’ overcalls. For the multi-use defences (Suction, etc), responder can wait and see. Sometimes we can bid their known suit as a takeout or stopper-ask.

You need a good system when advancer interferes over your 1C opener. This is the area that will give you the most headaches. It is a difficult spot for standard bidders also (and will happen more often to them because they will open 1m more often than you do, and advancer will more often be strong enough to interfere) but more likely it will cost you a missed game. Say the auction goes 1C (P) 1D(h) (1S); to you. With 4 hearts you ‘raise’ to 2H. With a spade stopper and 2-3 hearts, you can rebid 1NT (but you will probably get a spade lead which will be anti-field at matchpoints, and possibly deadly at imps if your stopper is weak … on the other hand you might improve with a holding like AJx or KJx .. on this auction KJx is very nearly as good as AKx). With just 3 hearts and no spade stopper, we raise to 2H anyway. Responder will know there is a chance he is on a 4-3 fit, and will react accordingly, and he will sometimes have 5+ hearts. With just 2 hearts and no spade stopper, we use a ‘strong notrump’ double, losing the support double, which imo is no big loss anyway. If you have an unbalanced club hand, just rebid your clubs. Now if advancer had pre-empted with (2S), then you might be screwed, but sometimes that happens to any system. I would raise to 3H with a top-of-range 3 or 4 fit, rebid 2NT with top of range, ditto with a strong notrump double, or rebid 3C with top of range and a good suit. Partner will make allowances/adjustments whatever you bid.

I include 5-card majors in 1NT openers, and most 5422 hands. There are pluses and minuses. A big minus is playing in 1NT with a 5-4 major fit. This can happen with strong notrumpers too but will happen less often. A big plus is your 1M openers are sharpened. You will not have a minimum 5332, you will be either 15+ balanced, or unbalanced. 1M - 1NT; 2C (could be short) will either be 15+ balanced, or unbalanced.

Opposite a less than invitational partner, you will often find yourself in 1NT with a 4-4 M fit. Sometimes it won’t hurt. Sometimes you will miss your 4-4 heart fit, and see they have missed their 4-4 spade fit. A lot of the time ‘you will have gotten to 1NT first’, because both sides hold a combined ~ 20 HCP. A lot of the time their leads into your 1NT contract will be not bad for you, because they are leading blind.

Play 1M – 2C as GF 2+, with or without a relay follow-up. Use an opener rebid of 2NT to show the 15-17 balanced hand, anything else to show the unbalanced hand.

As mentioned previously, if you use an 11-14 range and open most 11-pointers, then passed hand responder with a maximum of 10 cannot (very rarely anyway) want to invite game. To negotiate the optimum partial with an unbalanced hand, we like to use the defence to Capp outlined above, which allows you to show all your two-suiters. 2C = 54 majors. 2D = any 1-suiter. 2M = 4M5m, 2N = xx54, 3C = xx45.

If you use an 11-14 range, you might want to consider a ‘range’ Stayman of some type. We use 2C = invite+, then 2D = 11-12 no 5-card major, 2M = 11-12 5-carder, 2NT = any 13-14. After 2D, invitational responder and opener bid 4-card suits up the line to stop in 4=4 2M or 2NT. After 2NT opener rebid, 3C is GF Puppet. A direct 1NT – 3C is GF Puppet. Obviously no garbage or crawling Stayman permitted.


The weak 1NT ‘steals’ a whole level of bidding from your opps. You will open a LOT of them, watch the defenders squirm (they will say they hate it, which makes me wonder why they don’t play it). I hate playing against it. When I do, I use this simple system: 2C = 5-4 or better majors, with a 2D response = no preference. 2D and 2H are transfers. 2S = S plus m, X = H plus m. Since I am rarely hurt when they double my 1NT opening, I assume they can also scramble effectively so I don’t use a ‘penalty’ double. If I did, I would put it to a range, maybe 14-16 or whatever, so partner would better know whose hand it was, and he could judge better what to do with it, instead of floundering about.

[mgoetze]

 buff, on 2012-June-02, 14:39, said:

I like to use the 1-level acceptance as 18-19 4-fit, and the 2-level as 15-17 4-fit,

I think this is pretty terrible, but as there are a lot of threads about T-Walsh on these forums and this is not one of them, I won't go into it beyond that.

[jillybean]

removed, inappropriate.

[perko90]

I've played a lot of weak NT in a 2/1 system. There's a lot of advice already, and I agree with a lot, but disagree with some.
First, I've found that weak NT is a big winner. The chance of "going for a number" is way overblown. You'll pick up 5x the tops from doubling 2 lvl contracts that no one else can for every time you take a big loss. Missing 4-4 major fits is real and does happen a fair bit, but probably just as often you keep the opponents out of their fits, too. And then the improvement of other auctions is wonderful. Inverted minor auctions are a dream. And while some have pointed out the difficulties of showing your str NT when the opp's interfere, it isn't so bad usually.
Anyway, here's my pointers:

1) especially at MP, don't include 5-card majors in your weak NT openers (unless they're rags - Jxxxx or worse) This creates a bit of a problem w/ 1H-1S auctions, where there can be only 1 range for the 1NT rebid with the other having to bid a 3-card minor, but it's worth this little inconvenience to be "with the field" on your 1M openers.
2) Do NOT play a run-out system where you can't play 1NTx (some of the "pass demands a redouble" systems are like that). BTW, you NEVER get to play 1NTXX - they ALWAYS run! I know; I used to play it! Instead, I recommend XX shows the strong hand right away so opener can wield the ax w/ confidence when 4th hand bids. The key runout bid by responder is Pass = doubt. Opener bids a 5-card suit if they have one or redoubles w/ TWO 4-card suits (starting a scramble) and PASSES with all 4-3-3-3 hands (you'll be happy to be playing 1NTX instead of 2 of your likely 4-3 fit doubled). Heck, 1NTX down 1 NV can even be a very nice score.
3) consider 2-way NMF instead of the vanilla NMF version. Ptr will be looking for slams more often when your 1NT rebid shows 15-17 and you need some tools. But it isn't critical and can wait to be worked in.
4) I definitely recommend playing 15-17 in 4th seat and 3rd seat Vul. A weak NT in 4th seat is surely safe enough, but it's not the best way to reach the right partial. And unlike the earlier seats, it doesn't really preempt the opps because they can bid those 2-suited overcalls more freely and can use DBL as artificial. And yes, the 15-17 NT is more frequent in 4th seat.
5) the recommendation earlier to use short club so that all balanced hands of 15-19 HCPs are opened 1C is a good one. I'd also recommend bumping up the range of 1NT response to 1C to 8-11 or so. Also, having the 1D opener an unbalanced hand w/ 4+ D's is a nice advantage - let's you rebid 1NT w/ a misfit for ptr's M. Like 1D-1S; 1NT with 1-4-4-4 shape.
6) I'm neutral about playing Xfers or not with weak NT (I've done it both ways). But if you're starting out, it's probably easiest to use 'em for the familiarity factor. But if you decide not to play them, I recommend Murray 2D instead of the more popular (but not very useful) "Forcing Stayman."

Have fun! They're super fun to play. And you'll get plenty of practice from almost any session.