[tenbrvc]

How would you bid to a grand slam with these hands?


W has ♠ A K 7 ♥ A K J 9 ♦ A K 8 ♣ Q 9 5 2
E has ♠ Q 5 ♥ Q 6 4 3 ♦ 9 5 ♣ A K 10 7 4

Please explain any artificial bids used. Thanks

[mike777]

2c=2d
2nt=3c
3h=4s(rkc in h)
4nt(4)=6c(kC, grand try, deny other kings)
7c=now 7h or 7nt.

--


if east opens then:


1c=1h
2h=4s
5c(1)=5d(q ask)
6c(kc, Qh, deny other kings)=7h or 7nt pard did open the bidding.

[ArtK78]

How about 2♣ - 3♣ to start with? Isn't AKTxx with a couple of side Queens good enough to bid 3♣?

After 3♣ it will be difficult to get to hearts but it will be fairly easy to get to a grand.

[FrancesHinden]

tenbrvc, on 2012-April-23, 13:39, said:

Please explain any artificial bids used. Thanks

This is in a forum called 'natural bidding discussion'
The strong hand has 14 cards.

If the strong hand opens, then (using a couple of artificial bids)

2C (artificial, game forcing) -
3C (natural positive) -
5NT (grand slam force)
7C (2 of the top 3)
7NT

[ArtK78]

FrancesHinden, on 2012-April-23, 14:24, said:

The strong hand has 14 cards.

Better to bid a grand slam. You only have to make 13 of the 14 tricks.

[tenbrvc]

Thanks for the responses.

This hand actually came from a beginning bridge player, and she wanted to know how to bid the hand.

You,re right, ArtK78. The strong hand does have 14 cards. The correct West hand is

♠ A K 7 ♥ A K J 9 ♦ A K 8 ♣ Q 9 5

East has ♠ Q 5 ♥ Q 6 4 3 ♦ 9 5 ♣ A K 10 7 4

How would you bid to a grand slam if either East or West opens?

1. I understand the 2C-3C part by ArtK78, but you didn't say how the bidding should continue to get to a grand slam.

2. Question for FrancesHinden. I would think holding ♣ A K 10 7 4 alone without the side queens would be sufficient for a positive 3C response, don't you think? Then how can you be sure you have the queens for the grand slam? I would not be able to count all 13 tricks.

3. And Mike777, please explain your initial bids. I don't know how to put your reply in a box, so I re-copied your answers.

2c=2d
2nt=3c
3h=4s(rkc in h)
4nt(4)=6c(kC, grand try, deny other kings)
7c=now 7h or 7nt.

--

Assuming that you bid 2d as a waiting bid for all types of hands, and 2nt shows 24 HCP, what is the name of the convention when you use 4S as RKC for hearts? And then I don't understand the rest of the auction. Can you then visualize the responding hands having the right cards for you to bid the grand slam?

Thanks.

[mike777]

my auctions would not be appro for a beginner player....

[TWO4BRIDGE]

FrancesHinden, on 2012-April-23, 14:24, said:

This is in a forum called 'natural bidding discussion'

If the strong hand opens, then (using a couple of artificial bids)

2C (artificial, game forcing) -
3C (natural positive) -
5NT (grand slam force)
7C (2 of the top 3)
7NT

Really? Does 3C promise those 2 major Q's ??

[TWO4BRIDGE]

West ................. East
A K x ................ Q x
A K J 9 .............. Q x x x
A K x ................ x x
Q 9 x ................ A K 10 x x

2C ..........................3C ( 5+ cards w/2 of top 3 )
4C ( Minorwood ) ..... 4S ( 2 - ♣Q )
5H* (outside Q-ask)*.. 5S ( ♠ Q )
5NT ( 2nd Q-ask ) .... 6H ( ♥ Q, denies ♦ Q )
7NT
____________________________________________________________________
* 5D would have asked for cheapest bid K
..... 5H = ( by-passing K-ask ) asks for cheapest bid outside Q
............. 5NT reply would have been ♥Q, denying ♠Q
...................6D next would have been a 2nd Q-ask, if needed
............. 6C = no outside Q and Opener passes, hoping he can make 12 tricks.
............. 6D = ♦Q but no Major Q and Opener sign-off in 6NT ( he can count 12 tricks )

[Zelandakh]

I will give you my auctions but please do not show it to your beginner friend, it is wildly inappropriate since the system is completely artificial.

If West is first to speak:-

1♣ = 15+ nat/bal or 18+ any
... - 1NT = 9+ with hearts or hearts and clubs, GF
2♣ = relay, usually 18+
... - 2♥ = 4 hearts, 5+ clubs
2♠ = relay
... - 2NT = 5 clubs
3♣ = relay
... - 3♥ = 2425
3♠ = relay
... - 3NT = min
4♣ = relay
... - 4♠ = 3 controls (ace + king or 3 kings)
4NT = relay
... - 5♦ = club control, no heart control
5♣ = relay
... - 5♥ = no spade control
5♠ = relay
... - 5NT = no diamond control
6♣ = relay
... - 6♦ = no ♣Q
6♥ = relay
... - 7♣ = ♥Q, ♠Q, no ♦Q
7NT (Responder is known to have: Qx/Qxxx/xx/AKxxx)

If East is first to speak:-

2♣ = 10-14, 5 clubs and 4 card major or 6+ clubs and no 5 card side suit
... - 2♦ = 4+ hearts
3♦ = 4 hearts, min
... - 4♠ = RKCB
4NT = 1 key card
... - 5♣ = ♥Q?
5NT = yes, and ♣K but no other king
... - 7NT (Opener is known to have: -/Qxxx/-/AKxxx plus 4 non-heart cards lower than a king)


The bid of 4♠ as RKCB for hearts is known as Kickback. The problem here for a beginner is that you need not only RKCB but also follow-ups which are usually beyond the scope of such a player. In the cases of finding a side queen (if clubs are trumps) you need quite advanced follow-ups that even many advanced players do not know. In these cases you probably just have to punt a grand in the hope of finding something good opposite, or settle for a small slam. Getting to a making small slam is rarely a bad achievement for a beginner and I would suggest your friend worry more at this stage about bidding the right games and small slams and pretty much forget grand slams altogether unless they are of the 37+ hcp variety.

And yes, you are right about the forum Frances - I actually missed that until I checked through the thread after writing the above. On the other hand your auction has 5 bids and 3 of them are artificial! I do not think there is any sensible way of bidding these hands with purely natural bids.

[gnasher]

2♣-3♣
4♣-4NT ( - Keycard)
5♣-5♦ (0/3 - queen ask)
5♠-6♥ (♣Q+♠K - needs heart help)
7NT

South's main concern is to avoid reaching seven opposite a hand like AKx Axx AKQ QJxx. If he had ♥K he would have cue-bid it over 4♣, so 6♥ is indicating a problem there rather than a control.

If you prefer to respond 2♦:

2♣-2♦
2NT-3♣
3♥-3♠ ( - artificial, agreeing hearts)
4♦-4NT (cue, denying club control - Keycard)
5♦-6♣ (1/4 - needs club help)
7♣-7♥ (♣Q, suggesting clubs as trumps)

In this sequence, South has shown a club control and North has denied either A or K. Hence 6♣ asks for third-round control.

I'm not sure about South's final call. He doesn't want to play 7♥ opposite AKx AKxx AK Qxxx and risk losing a trump. On the other hand, Ax AKJx AKx QJxx makes it important to play in hearts. Maybe he should bid 7♦ to offer a choice between 7♥ and 7NT.

This post has been edited by gnasher: 2012-April-25, 03:17

[FrancesHinden]

Zelandakh, on 2012-April-24, 02:21, said:

And yes, you are right about the forum Frances - I actually missed that until I checked through the thread after writing the above. On the other hand your auction has 5 bids and 3 of them are artificial! I do not think there is any sensible way of bidding these hands with purely natural bids.

3NT - 4C
6C - 7NT

3NT = too strong to open 2NT
4C = natural, forcing slam try
6C = lots of AKs and some sort of club support
7NT = extra high cards

OK, it's a bit guessy. That's probably why artificial bids were invented for strong hands.

[Fluffy]

tenbrvc, on 2012-April-23, 17:10, said:

You,re right, ArtK78. The strong hand does have 14 cards.

At least he didn't call you Francis

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

If West opens

2C - 2D (0)
2NT (1) - 3C (2)
3H - 3S (3)
4D (4) - ...(5)

(0) I prefer to have a 6 card suit for 3C
(1) 23-24 HCP, bal.
(2) Stayman
(3) bidding 3 of the other major after a Stayman inquiry, and after the NT opener showed a 4 card major,
is artifical, agrees the suit, and showes Slam interest
This is useful also with less strength / in other sequences
(4) Cue
(5) The Ace / King asking bids by East will reveal AK in spades, hearts and diamonds.
The problem will be, if opener has xx or xxx in clubs.

I guess bidding 7 will be odds on, but stopping in 6 is no shame.

If East opens, than West wont stop below 7.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Cthulhu D]

ArtK78, on 2012-April-23, 14:19, said:

How about 2♣ - 3♣ to start with? Isn't AKTxx with a couple of side Queens good enough to bid 3♣?

After 3♣ it will be difficult to get to hearts but it will be fairly easy to get to a grand.

I think this depends on if your partner is going to open distributional hands as 2C or not. If he doesn't, I think 3C is better than if he does. It's not like you cannot drive to slam after a 2D response anyway.

[Cyberyeti]

There are many ways to bid this:

2♣-3♣
3N (natural no 5 card suit, it's sensible to play 2♣-positive as F4N unless you already know a control is missing)-4♥
4♠ (keycard, can't be natural here, one of 4♠/4N should be ace asking, the other signoff in 4N, doesn't really matter which)-5♣(1/4)
5♦(Q♥?)-6♣(yes and K♣)
7♥

Basically you know your facing ♣ AKxxx and ♥Qxxx which is enough for grand if either suit behaves.

Or: (we play 2N good 19-21, 2N 22-23 so use kokish here)

2♣-2♦(waiting not negative)
2♥(kokish)-2♠(semi forced)
2N(24-25)-3♣ (asking about majors)
3♦(no 5M, but also not 2♠ and 2-3♥)-3♥(4 card ♥)
4♦(cue agreeing ♥, no ♣ control)-4♠(keycard, extras)
5♣(1 or 4)-6♣(I know you have 4 keycards, I have a source of tricks in clubs and the Q♥, can you help me in clubs)
7♥ (Yes, I have the Q♣, I have the J♥ so 7♥ figures to be better than 7N as I don't know whether you have J♣)

[mikl_plkcc]

If West opens:
2♣ (strong) - 2♠! (3 controls, slam inviting)
* I prefer to use step responses because it leaves the strong hand hidden most of the time.
2NT (balanced) - 3♣ (stayman)
3♥ - 4NT (RKCB)
5♦ (1 or 4 keycards) - 5NT (King ask)
6♥ (2 Kings) - 7♥

If East opens:
1♣
1♥ (4+ Hs, F1) - 2♥ (simple raise on minimum hand, set trumps)
* Now, West should notice that they have at least 36 HCPs in total so a grand slam is very likely.
2♠ (1st round control) - 3♣ (1st round control)
3♦ (1st round control) - 4♣ (2nd round control)
7♥ (all controls are here and I have the trumps A and K so go for it)

[Antrax]

After a major-suit response to stayman, 4NT is RKCB? How do you invite to 6NT holding four of the other major?

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Antrax, on 2012-May-06, 06:05, said:

After a major-suit response to stayman, 4NT is RKCB? How do you invite to 6NT holding four of the other major?

Back in February this was answered by phil_20686 in this thread : http://www.bridgebas...am/page__st__20

He said: " I think its fairly standard if you play normal Stayman , that bidding the other major should show a slam try in partners major. "
So,
2NT - 3C
3H - 3S! = artificial slam try, agreeing ♥

I suppose here it could continue with some cuebidding or a Serious 3NT! :
3NT! - 4C ( cue )
4S! ( kickback ) - 5C ( 1/4 )
5D ( ♥Q-ask ) - 6C ( ♥Q + ♣K )
??
No way to ask about side-suit Queens; any further "ask" would be for an outside King .
6H ( can't count to a sure 13 tricks )

[Antrax]

I was replying to mikl_plkcc's post.