[rduran1216]

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plan your defense.

[inquiry]

I am thinking of moving this to intermdiate/advanced forum, because at this point, I can't see the "trick" to it... but then, maybe that is why it needs to be in the expert forum. And because we can see the dummy but no trick one info is available (incomplete problem), I assume we played something to trick one (probably a high diamond) perhaps one that gets count from partner.

Can we assume this is a weak two opening bid? And west is on maximum range for his bid. Shape matters, west rates to be something like 6-3 in the majors or maybe 6-4... why? partner is marked with 6 hcp, plus or minus 1, and if he had a bunch of hearts, he would bid 4♥ rather than pass.&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>WHAT IS a bunch of hearts? For me, that would be six. So partner rates to have at most five hearts, and might have four. Declarer rates strongly to have only one

So that gives us west with something like 6-3-1-3. 6-3-0-4, 6-3-2-2, 6-4-1-2, 6-4-0-3. and 6-4-3-0. With west having at least 9 and maybe 10 cards in the majors, to south's minimum of 7 cards in the majors, the odds that west has a singleton diamond or diamond void is kind of high. So I think the best chance is west is 6-3-1-3.

As far as the hcp, the weaker partner's hearts are, the stronger his spades will be. Some cards are not useful for us. For instance, if partner has the ♠Q, ♥Q AND ♦J for his 5 hcp, well they will make. BUT if partners 5 to 6 points include a major suit king, we will set the contract if the diamond ace stood up. Even if partner has he ♥QJ, we have a chance to to defeat this if partner has the club queen or ten. This is because if declarer has ♣QTX and a singleton diamond he can set the dummy's fourth club for a heart pitch before we can get our heart trick.

Anyway, what happened to trick one when I LEAD a high diamond. That might be a good place to start this problem.

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[rduran1216]

If you cash a diamond partner will play a low spot (all you'll miss is the Jack) which is consistent with a singleton or doubleton.

If you now cash a club, partner will again play low to show even or a stiff.

btw this was a hand from the USBC's that both defenders got wrong, but thanks for the benefit of the doubt that this is an intermediate problem.

[cherdano]

rduran1216, on 2012-May-02, 08:00, said:

btw this was a hand from the USBC's that both defenders got wrong, but thanks for the benefit of the doubt that this is an intermediate problem.

You think that based on your posting history, you are owed the benefit of the doubt when you post an incomplete problem?

[gnasher]

Deleted - misread the auction

[phil_20686]

rduran1216, on 2012-May-02, 08:00, said:

btw this was a hand from the USBC's that both defenders got wrong, but thanks for the benefit of the doubt that this is an intermediate problem.

Hopefully I will `go wrong' in the same way.

It just seems like a total guess atm.

Maybe there is a small reason to play a heart, in case declarers clubs are Qx. In that case a diamond ruffed or a spade could let them get a heart loser away. So i'd probably play a heart, but not with any great conviction.

Also, why didn't I play the club Ace for Attitude? That would have cleared this problem up better than the k.

[gnasher]

I think partner would have bid 4♥ with ♥K108xxx. Hence a heart switch can't be necessary to beat the contract.

I can think of only one layout where what we do at trick two is critical: KJxxxx KQ x Qxxx and Qxx J108xxx Jx xx. Partner might have bid 4♥ with that too, but it's believable that he didn't. The 2♠ opening is a bit strange too.

I cash a club. When he shows an even number and ♣10 doesn't appear, I give him a ruff.

If declarer played ♣10 on the first club, I'd still have a problem, because declarer might be KJxxxx Kxx Jx Q10

This post has been edited by gnasher: 2012-May-03, 08:18

[wanoff]

I rather keep West in range and play for Kxxxxxx,KQ,Jx,xx.
Need to cash the diamond.

[Phil]

The 2♠ opener had a very strange hand. So much so that I thought the opening might have been systemic.

I don't think any of the comments remotely hint at what it takes to set this, but that isn't surprising.

[inquiry]

rduran1216, on 2012-May-02, 08:00, said:

If you cash a diamond partner will play a low spot (all you'll miss is the Jack) which is consistent with a singleton or doubleton.

If you now cash a club, partner will again play low to show even or a stiff.


btw this was a hand from the USBC's that both defenders got wrong, but thanks for the benefit of the doubt that this is an intermediate problem.

I thought it was an intermediate/advanced problem primarily because it was no problem... you didn't include the opening lead or the cards played by the two closed hands. As far as being from USBC, that doesn't make it an "expert hand", nor does the fact that both defenders "got it wrong" make it an expert problem. Only if they both let it make and they missed the best defense on the hand (not the winning defense, but the best defense based upon the evidence at hand).


As far as the "evidence on hand", even after I asked you for details, you still didn't completely answer. You finally told me the lead and what partner played, you then added stuff I didn't ask about trick two, but you never answered the question about if it was weak two. Since this was USBC, and since phil comment further makes it clear that it was a weak two, then we can know (finally) that it was a weak two. I will ignore phils comment that it was strange so it almost seemed like a conventional bid.

So back to my working hypothesis based upon the bidding (and lack of bidding by partner).

• Partner has about 5 or maybe 6 hcp. This is because opener has 10 or 11 max
• Partner has at most 5 hearts, I can't see him passing 3♠x with six hearts (or six clubs for that matter).
• Partner has at most 3♠, and probably exactly 3♠, at most 2♦, at most 5♥ and at most 5♣. This means declarer will have at least 3♥ and at least 1♣
• If declarer has ♥KJxx or better he will make unless partner has ♠K or ♠QJ, in which case our defense doesn't matter ( with KJxx, he can ruff the 4th round in dummy, to win 6♠, 3♥, and a heart ruff). If declarer's hearts are weaker than KJxx a heart switch can not hurt.
• Partner in theory, can not have a singleton club (if declarer has 6=5 in the blacks, partner would be 3-7-2-1 and would have bid 4♥ over 3♠x
• Partner in theory, can not have a doubleton club (if declarer was 6=4 in the blacks, partner would be 3-6-2-2 and would have bid hearts over 3♠x. There is a remote chance declarer could be 5-5 in the blacks, and partner is 4-5-2-2, but he is not going to make it in this case because he quickly loses control
• The other possibility is declarer holds seven spades. Even with 7♠ that still is not enough if partner has a certain heart trick (K) or a spade trick (now has to be the king, cause QJ isn't good enough). Without one of those cards, declaer has 9 tricks. Now partner needs ♥QJ and since he alone has the heart and club guards, we might need to break up the pending squeeze on him by leading hearts twice.

IF partner has the ♥K or the ♠K (or ♠QJx) declarer can not make this, and in fact might be down two. So the problem hands for you are when

Magic hands for declarer where there is nothing we can do are ones like:
♠KQxxxx ♥Kxx ♦x ♣Qxx or
♠KJxxxx ♥Kxxx ♦x ♣QT

If partner passed with six hearts and a doubleton club, I am going to miss a club ruff on club AK and a club here, but I will never find that defense if partner passed over 3♠xx. And if that is the play the "experts missed", it was because of their partner's misbid, not misdefense.

Other than the magic group of hands listed above, where nothing works, everything works against the normal hands... rather declarer is 6-3-1-3, 6-4-1-2, 6-3-2-2, or 6-4-1-2, 7-3-1-2, or 7-3-2-1

The normal continuation would seem to be a diamond at trick two. I am a bit partial to a heart, as that can never give the contract away (nothing to throw away from dummy on heart winner), and if partner has the ♥KQ, leading them twice from myside might result in an extra down one if declarer ducks twice in dummy. Even a club lead would be ok. There is no rush to get the club tricks, however, as declarer has no where to throw them (declarer can not have ♥KQ doubleton as some speculate, as partner still will not have six hearts, and if declarer has KQx of hearts, partner will have club queen or spade trick, and again, my club winner is not going anywhere).

So I guess the field, and I will continue with a diamond at trick two. If the diamond wins, I will now switch to a heart. If declarer ruffs, I will only have decisions left on the hand when I win club tricks. Each time I win a club, I will lead a heart (if I still have one in my hand).

[gnasher]

inquiry, on 2012-May-03, 21:33, said:

The other possibility is declarer holds seven spades. Even with 7♠ that still is not enough if partner has a certain heart trick (K) or a spade trick (now has to be the king, cause QJ isn't good enough). Without one of those cards, declaer has 9 tricks. Now partner needs ♥QJ and since he alone has the heart and club guards, we might need to break up the pending squeeze on him by leading hearts twice.

You're suggesting Kxxxxxx Kxx x xx? That's a good point (though to break up the squeeze only one round of hearts is sufficient).

There's another reason for playing a heart: if declarer has that shape with ♣10, ie Kxxxxxx Kxx x 10x, he has a club trick by force, so we need to play a heart at trick two whilst partner still has an entry.

That seems more likely that the layout I postulated.