[pigpenz]

this hand came up.....out of 16 tables only 5 got to correct strain hearts
7♥N-1
6♥N=
6♥S +1
4♥S +3

we have
12 tricks off top if hearts break evenly, club ruff for 13 if they do
seems pretty basic, I guess I dont understand what sort of simulations GIB
would do that would make taking the ♦ finesse at trick one correct.
so in a nutshell all the human declarers made 13, while the GIBs only made 12 tricks.

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[phil_20686]

pigpenz, on 2012-April-18, 09:17, said:

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It just seems better to take the diamond finesse in 6H. If the trumps are 4-1 (and you guess wrong) and the diamond K onside, then rising with the ace just leads to trivially going off when you were cold by taking the hook.

[pigpenz]

phil_20686, on 2012-April-18, 10:43, said:

It just seems better to take the diamond finesse in 6H. If the trumps are 4-1 (and you guess wrong) and the diamond K onside, then rising with the ace just leads to trivially going off when you were cold by taking the hook.

I could see this at imps, but this was in a 16 result matchpoint field

[georgi]

When GIB plays for safety =, it's blamed ( because it's MP scoring)
When GIB plays for +1 and puts on jeopardy safety = ( but on MP's could be full 0% if all make finesse and do +1 ) it's blamed again.

Does the theory "everything-will-fall" should be in use always by GIB?

♦Q also protects from bad return in diamonds ( having 109 in declarer ) so after the lead diamond suit can't be continued.

Then all you need is to guess the right side of Jxxx in case of bad trump split.

In case you don't guess the J, even if spades are friendly 3-2 where ♥Jxxx has the ♠xxx in spades, 4th spade will pick up useless diamond, as the ♣A will pick up diamond loser from declarer's hand. So the problem exists. 4-1 in spades and same defender having 4 hearts will be too beautiful to be true.

[pigpenz]

georgi, on 2012-April-19, 05:15, said:

When GIB plays for safety =, it's blamed ( because it's MP scoring)
When GIB plays for +1 and puts on jeopardy safety = ( but on MP's could be full 0% if all make finesse and do +1 ) it's blamed again.

Does the theory "everything-will-fall" should be in use always by GIB?

♦Q also protects from bad return in diamonds ( having 109 in declarer ) so after the lead diamond suit can't be continued.

Then all you need is to guess the right side of Jxxx in case of bad trump split.

In case you don't guess the J, even if spades are friendly 3-2 where ♥Jxxx has the ♠xxx in spades, 4th spade will pick up useless diamond, as the ♣A will pick up diamond loser from declarer's hand. So the problem exists. 4-1 in spades and same defender having 4 hearts will be too beautiful to be true.

this is one of those cases where the result of the board comes up as soon as the lead is made.
so when you go back to actually see the hand you wonder why it makes the play it does.
My main concern in a good field are humans gonna make this play when there is a pretty high %
of coming to 13 tricks by refusing the finesse....at imps I fully understand the finesse.

[Stephen Tu]

Not clear if Q is best at IMPS -- what if singleton diamond lead?

This one might just be a thinking time issue -- my home PC GIB plays the ace and thinks it's quite a bit better. It also is probably a double dummy engine vs. single dummy engine issue -- double dummy engine would think it's going to pick up 4-1 hearts always so DA is clearly better in this case. AFAIK, the basic GIBs are DD only, and even the advanced GIBs only kick in the single-dummy reasoning line around trick 3 or later, being too slow to deal with the entire 13 trick play.

[pigpenz]

Stephen Tu, on 2012-April-19, 10:10, said:

Not clear if Q is best at IMPS -- what if singleton diamond lead?

This one might just be a thinking time issue -- my home PC GIB plays the ace and thinks it's quite a bit better. It also is probably a double dummy engine vs. single dummy engine issue -- double dummy engine would think it's going to pick up 4-1 hearts always so DA is clearly better in this case. AFAIK, the basic GIBs are DD only, and even the advanced GIBs only kick in the single-dummy reasoning line around trick 3 or later, being too slow to deal with the entire 13 trick play.

i can only look at what my brain does unfortunately
at matchpoints I would probably pay off to the 4-1 heart breaks and go down by rising with the A♦.
its about 74% that hearts will behave or we have singelton J♥ and maybe throw in hand where we can still pick up
4-1♥ break and ruff club, maybe makes it 75%

Stephen: if you have home GIB doyou set argument to be matchpoints over imps?
you can find arguments by typing bridge.exe /? or /help at dos prompt

[Stephen Tu]

Yes I tried both MP and IMP, GIB played ace with both. That's what I'd expect, since it should be assuming that it's always guessing who has 4 trumps and cashing the right second honor so it can draw trumps without loss. So DQ just gives up a lot of unnecessary overtricks + the diamond ruff.

[pigpenz]

Stephen Tu, on 2012-April-19, 10:39, said:

Yes I tried both MP and IMP, GIB played ace with both. That's what I'd expect, since it should be assuming that it's always guessing who has 4 trumps and cashing the right second honor so it can draw trumps without loss. So DQ just gives up a lot of unnecessary overtricks + the diamond ruff.

posted this one in the expert forum, basically got
blasted to death for even suggesting this as a problem
Case closed, Over and Out