[Bbradley62]

http://tinyurl.com/6svo7ce
9- total points?

[32519]

I think it was Mike Lawrence who said responder must bid his FULL HAND at his first option after a TOX. This is what was suggested:
1. Any non-jump bid = 0-8 HCP and an attempted signoff. The 0-8 HCP includes distributional points.
2. 1NT (or 2NT in your example) = 6-10 HCP, no 4-card major.
3. Any jump-bid = 9-11 HCP, a good 4-card suit or a 5-card suit of any quality. Jumping in a minor suit must guarantee a 5-card suit.
4. 2NT over a 1-level TOX = 11-12 HCP, no 4-card major.
5. 3NT over a 1-level TOX = 13-15 HCP, no 4-card major.
6. A cue-bid of the suit doubled is game forcing.

Applying Mike’s rules, the North hand here is caught between a rock-and-a-hard-place. I count 10 HCP but the 4-card ♠ suit is awful. 4♠ can make here but it will be very difficult to find using these guidelines.

I also would love to hear what others suggest here!

[cloa513]

32519, on 2012-April-17, 01:31, said:

I think it was Mike Lawrence who said responder must bid his FULL HAND at his first option after a TOX. This is what was suggested:
1. Any non-jump bid = 0-8 HCP and an attempted signoff. The 0-8 HCP includes distributional points.
2. 1NT (or 2NT in your example) = 6-10 HCP, no 4-card major.
3. Any jump-bid = 9-11 HCP, a good 4-card suit or a 5-card suit of any quality. Jumping in a minor suit must guarantee a 5-card suit.
4. 2NT over a 1-level TOX = 11-12 HCP, no 4-card major.
5. 3NT over a 1-level TOX = 13-15 HCP, no 4-card major.
6. A cue-bid of the suit doubled is game forcing.

Applying Mike’s rules, the North hand here is caught between a rock-and-a-hard-place. I count 10 HCP but the 4-card ♠ suit is awful. 4♠ can make here but it will be very difficult to find using these guidelines.

I also would love to hear what others suggest here!

Then North can cue- it can hardly be game forcing with a passed hand- logically if these are North's difficult choices- South has to bid 2S.

[32519]

cloa513, on 2012-April-17, 01:41, said:

Then North can cue - it can hardly be game forcing with a passed hand - logically if these are North's difficult choices - South has to bid 2S.

This sounds like a good suggestion. Let us try and add a definition to it, Point 7 to Mike's list above.

Here goes:
7. A cue-bid by a passed hand = 9-11 HCP and a weak 4-card suit in the other major.

[nathan2008]

in general i always try to avoid a t/o double.... Gib has many difficulties in reacting after a t/o X

[Stephen Tu]

nathan2008, on 2012-April-17, 05:03, said:

in general i always try to avoid a t/o double.... Gib has many difficulties in reacting after a t/o X

Comments like these are really not at all helpful in a GIB bug report thread. We are trying to get GIB to react appropriately after a takeout double, so that it can bid normally, and humans can bid normally and get GIB to bid reasonably afterwards. Recommending that humans distort their bidding, assuming GIB is going to remain buggy forever, is counterproductive to improving GIB!

GIB bids much better than it used to, despite the many bug reports here. Try bidding normally with it sometimes. The reports are now more often more obscure, rarer auctions.

[Stephen Tu]

The other comments above don't really apply so much because it's a takeout double of a weak two, and Lebensohl 2nt applies.
Unfortunately, there isn't a ton of consensus between the differences of:
- 3 sp response
- 2nt, followed by 3sp over partner's expected 3c
- direct cue bid
- 2nt, followed by cue bid

Logically all should show different hands.
This is also complicated by this being a passed hand, optimization might suggest slightly different meanings for passed hands, but that might not be worth the extra complexity.

"Preempts from A to Z" by Anderson/Zenkel suggests:
3sp - 5 sp inv
2nt follow by 3sp - 4 sp inv
cue = GF, looking for best game, 4cd sp
2nt follow by cue = asking stopper

I don't know if it's best, or most common, but it looks playable.

[pigpenz]

it seems since we are playing lebensohl to doubles of weak two bids
2♠ should be bust
2NT/3♠ by way of leb.
3♠direct
now we have to define what the 2 3♠ bids mean

then we have cue for game forcing hand
then the 3♠ bids can be set up for different
point ranges