[dwar0123]

standard 2/1 imps.

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Had a little disagreement about whether or not this was a reverse. Any insight into the expected point count and length of spades for the 2♠ bid?

[aguahombre]

Disagreeing about whether to call it a reverse is not productive. Call it whatever you want, but opener is forcing a mere 1-level responder to at least the 3-level; so, opener has enough strength to do that despite not knowing whether the partnership has a fit.

Now that is out of the way, you need to agree on whether 2NT/2S is a weakness-showing artificial bid in this competitive auction, or natural. You don't even need to call that a Lebensohl question; just decide. However, on this hand, I would bid 3C regardless. Everything I have is in pard's suits, and if he thinks I have a good hand in support he will not be disappointed.

[FrancesHinden]

It should show the same strength as if West had not overcalled.
You can agree to play it as weaker (and non-forcing) if you like, but I don't believe that to be standard.

As agua said, this is then another 'system on or off in competition' question, that you just need to agree with your partner.

[phil_20686]

One should bear in mind that these reverses in competition, as well as showing a decent hand, also tend to show weakish 6-5 hands. The tactical disadvantage of having to pass with AJxxx x x AQxxxx is just too much, so you need to bid 2S with these hands aswell.

[dwar0123]

FrancesHinden, on 2012-April-09, 02:04, said:

It should show the same strength as if West had not overcalled.
You can agree to play it as weaker (and non-forcing) if you like, but I don't believe that to be standard.

As agua said, this is then another 'system on or off in competition' question, that you just need to agree with your partner.

Ok, I am confused.

I did think it showed essentially the same type of hand as if west had not overcalled, maybe a point or 2 more then a dead minimum. However I didn't think 1♣-x-1♥-p-1♠ showed anything more then an opening hand. 1♥ is forcing and 1♠ is the cheapest bid?

Oh wait, maybe you meant that 2♠ here shows the same hand as if I had bid 2♠ over a pass. In other words its still showing the strength of a jump shift.

If that's the case, good to know. Kinda funny cause I did have a strong hand even though I thought I hadn't showed it yet and bid 4♣ when partner passed and opponents kept competing.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

aguahombre, on 2012-April-08, 21:19, said:

you need to agree on whether 2NT/2S is a weakness-showing artificial bid in this competitive auction, or natural.

Did you really mean 2S ? ( 2S has already been bid by partner ) .

[aguahombre]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2012-April-09, 06:57, said:

Did you really mean 2S ? ( 2S has already been bid by partner ) .

Yes. 2N/2s= bidding 2NT over 2S.

[broze]

phil_20686, on 2012-April-09, 02:38, said:

One should bear in mind that these reverses in competition, as well as showing a decent hand, also tend to show weakish 6-5 hands. The tactical disadvantage of having to pass with AJxxx x x AQxxxx is just too much, so you need to bid 2S with these hands aswell.

Do you open these hands 1♣ then? What do you do after your p responds 1NT? I find that most of the problems in these auctions can be solved by opening 1♠.

[aguahombre]

FrancesHinden, on 2012-April-09, 02:04, said:

It should show the same strength as if West had not overcalled.
You can agree to play it as weaker (and non-forcing) if you like, but I don't believe that to be standard.

Weaker and non-forcing definitely would not be standard. It definitely should be forcing. However, I don't think we can hold 2S (when competition prevented 1S) to the same standard as a jump-shift rebid which is game forcing. If we did, then all kinds of complications (rot, if you will) might set in. We would have to add convoluted extra possible meanings to the Double, for instance ---quite impractical if playing support doubles, and merely confusing otherwise.

[mike777]

dwar0123, on 2012-April-08, 21:05, said:

standard 2/1 imps.

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Had a little disagreement about whether or not this was a reverse. Any insight into the expected point count and length of spades for the 2♠ bid?

I would take 2s as natural and game force if tht is what you are asking.

I would now try 3c.

[phil_20686]

broze, on 2012-April-09, 08:42, said:

Do you open these hands 1♣ then? What do you do after your p responds 1NT? I find that most of the problems in these auctions can be solved by opening 1♠.

Except when you have a club fit.


I am a simple soul, and normally open my longest suit. I dont feel this is particularly controversial. The only exception I make is weak 5-x-x-6 when I am playing a short club that opens all bal hands a club (including those with 4d), as after that the way the system is geared tends to make competitive auctions tricky, since ou are not assumed to have clubs. With clubs and spades particularly there is a very good chance that you can get both suits into the auction. If LHO overcalls 3H over your openeing bid, would you rather have opened 1C or 1S? I guess I feel this way mostly because with 56 I am prepared to bid spades over any level of preempt. If you are prepared to pass 3H after 1S (3/4H) p p, then probably opening 1S is better.

If I was 5-5 I normally open 1S.