[EricK]

To my way of thinking, 4NT should be quantitative. If responder wants to set ♦ as trumps, he should take 3NT out into 4♦.

[aguahombre]

EricK, on 2012-April-09, 08:00, said:

To my way of thinking, 4NT should be quantitative. If responder wants to set ♦ as trumps, he should take 3NT out into 4♦.

As previously stated, 3D after 4SF already set diamonds as trumps, and opener should have bid 3S over that, rather than 3NT. So, this situation should not have occurred unless Opener was weaker (say, QJX X QXXX AQXXX). Responder's 4NT is still interested in slam opposite that crap, if he was listening to the mistaken 3NT bid.

But, we don't have to set diamonds as trump twice in the same auction; and we certainly must have something available other than 4NT to ask for key cards. 4NT to ask how good our bad opening bid is, doesn't seem practical either. So, like I said, I don't know what 4NT could mean, but since I have shown a much weaker hand than I hold, I must do something over it.

[the_clown]

I would never open this 1♦ unless playing canape.How can I tell partner that I decided to open my shorter suit with 9 high instead of the suit where I have AKQ. The only thing we can achieve is to make partner lead the wrong suit.

4nt would be quantitative, if p has slam try in ♦, he would start with 4♦.

[ArtK78]

the_clown, on 2012-April-09, 09:14, said:

I would never open this 1♦ unless playing canape.How can I tell partner that I decided to open my shorter suit with 9 high instead of the suit where I have AKQ. The only thing we can achieve is to make partner lead the wrong suit.

4nt would be quantitative, if p has slam try in ♦, he would start with 4♦.

He already bid fourth suit forcing and then diamonds. How many times does he have to raise diamonds?

[benlessard]

In the French style 2nt rebid is min or very strong (very strong here is not possible), 3nt directly show two spades stopper and 15-17, its not perfect but its hard to find a good use for a direct 3Nt.

Its strongly suggest a stiff or xx in partner suit. Here however its not perfect since that partner might have a stiff D and 5C/6C is there.

However bidding 2NT with extras values and simply bidding 3NT the next round lead to some share of problems too.

Anyway using 4Nt as keycard for minors is really bad in the long run and its something you should get rid of. 4D is 100% keycard for me since I much rather keycard low than care about cuebidding.

On this hand i would simply bid 6C suggesting that 6C in 5-3 (even 52) will play better than 4-4 in D. (I might pitch slow loser in D on a good H)

Playing my system I open 1D since ill be able to show 5C and stop at 2C, but otherwise I prefer 1C opening. Even 1C--1H--1S wich is something I never do might make some sense here.

[EricK]

ArtK78, on 2012-April-09, 11:35, said:

He already bid fourth suit forcing and then diamonds. How many times does he have to raise diamonds?

It's not raising ♦, it's simply not making a quantitive NT raise, and so implicitly confirming ♦ as the trump suit (and denying a ♣ cue). i.e. The only way to make a quantitive raise in this sequence is 4NT, there are other ways to confirm ♦ before asking for aces. Hence, logically, an immediate 4NT is quantitive and going some other route to 4NT (if not playing Minorwood, or some such) is the way to ask for Aces with ♦ agreed.

[stansllee]

ArtK78, on 2012-April-09, 07:11, said:

That depends upon the partnership agreement.



No. The diamond declarer was fixed with the opening bid. Choosing whether to cue bid hearts or spades first has no effect on the declarership. In diamonds, it doesn't matter which hand declares. Why would you ever want to play slam in notrump on this hand?

NT was first bid by East (2NT over 4SF) as well, so I never want to play slam in this hand, all I concerned is how high to go?

[stansllee]

EricK, on 2012-April-09, 08:00, said:

To my way of thinking, 4NT should be quantitative. If responder wants to set ♦ as trumps, he should take 3NT out into 4♦.

This is good point! If partner then bid 4H over 4D, is it a cue-bid or implies a tolerance or even a mild fit for responder's hearts?

[FrancesHinden]

I am happy to answer the question of what 4NT meant just by looking at the auction - it's quantitative. If all responder wants to do is keycard in diamonds, bid 4D over 2NT to set trumps unambiguously. I agree 3D shows diamond support, but it doesn't commit the hand to playing in diamonds. In particular, if I play that 1D-1H-2C can be 5-4 either way round, then it's definitely the case that 3D can't set trumps, because responder might only have 3 of them.

Now I've seen both hands, all I can think is that you are playing some non-standard methods so I've no idea what the auction means.
I can't believe that 1D is the correct opening bid in any vaguely natural-based system. Playing standard Precision I'd open 2C (or possibly 1C). Playing a natural method I open 1C, and rebid 2C over 1H. Why on earth should I be embarrassed about rebidding my AKQ10x suit? If you tell me that shows a 6-card suit, I'd still rather do that than open the hand 1D.

Easy auction:
1C - 1D
2D - 3S (splinter)
keycard

[WellSpyder]

FrancesHinden, on 2012-April-10, 15:24, said:

Playing standard Precision I'd open 2C (or possibly 1C).

I hope you wouldn't consider a Precision 1C if you were playing in your home country, Frances - the EBU doesn't allow this hand to be treated as a strong 1C.

[aguahombre]

WellSpyder, on 2012-April-11, 04:57, said:

I hope you wouldn't consider a Precision 1C if you were playing in your home country, Frances - the EBU doesn't allow this hand to be treated as a strong 1C.

This has a KNR of 17.8 and a DK of 16+. Hope everyone remembers EBU doesn't allow a strong 1C with this hand, when they are extolling the silliness of ACBL regulations (if what WellSpyder says is true).