[BunnyGo]

We just recently had the following auction, and weren't 100% sure of the meaning.

(1♣)-X-(1♦)-1♠
(P)-2♠

Is 2♠ just a bid to keep the opponents out, or is it showing a big hand that wants to try for game?

[kfay]

Shows 4 spades basically, in my opinion. Can't have my usual POS double either but I don't think it shows 'extras.'

[nigel_k]

It used to be standard that the raise shows extras but I don't think this is the case any more. Plenty of people will raise on any hand with four spades but plenty of people also still play that it shows extra values. So you need an agreement. I prefer it to show extras but am probably old fashioned.

In the actual auction, the strength of the 1♠ bidder is quite closely defined as they could pass if weaker or bid 2♠ if stronger. So it should be fine if 3♠ is the only way to invite game. But after an auction such as (1♣)-X-(P)-1♠-(2♣) it is harder as the range of the 1♠ bidder is a lot greater.

[phil_20686]

Courtesy raise. Opener has a free cuebid available to show extras. I do not think his bidding 2C is GF here. Just shows that game might have a chance.

[JLOGIC]

nigel_k, on 2012-March-29, 17:29, said:

It used to be standard that the raise shows extras but I don't think this is the case any more. Plenty of people will raise on any hand with four spades but plenty of people also still play that it shows extra values. So you need an agreement. I prefer it to show extras but am probably old fashioned.

This 100 %. The modern style is to raise with 4 trumps but I hate that style personally. Makes life harder on your opps and gets you to 2S with 8 spades immediately, so certainly a gain in that style, but it makes constructive bidding harder.

ETA: After a free bid maybe its better to play a raise as blocking since responders range is not as wide, i only hate it as courtesy when responder is 0-9 and the ranges are too wide for that luxury imo.

[the hog]

This certainly shows extras for me. How on earth is responder meant at assess her hand if it is just any hand with 4S?

[gnasher]

It shows extras in that it's a hand that would have made a takeout double 30 years ago, and hasn't got any worse. KQxx K10xx Axx xx would be OK.

phil_20686, on 2012-March-29, 17:43, said:

Courtesy raise. Opener has a free cuebid available to show extras. I do not think his bidding 2C is GF here. Just shows that game might have a chance.

The cue-bid isn't free: it's already in use for discussing the strain and level when opener has a 17-count without four spades.

If I were designing methods to use here, I'd use 2NT as a strong raise, and 3M as a more shapely one. A natural jump to 2NT isn't really needed, because you can go via 2♣ with a balanced 21-count.

This post has been edited by gnasher: 2012-March-30, 06:56

[han]

I prefer that it does not show extras. Any time I double with a 4-4-4-1 hand and partner freely bids one of my suits I want to raise.

[FrancesHinden]

There are three similar, but different, types of auction here:

(e.g.)

1.

1♣ dbl P 1♠
P 2♠

2.

1♣ dbl P* 1♠
2♣ 2♠

*or a bid

3.

1♣ dbl 1♦ 1♠
P 2♠


The first of these you really need to keep 2♠ as a constructive raise - partner can be very weak indeed and you can't really afford to put a 4-card spade raise to the 2-level into the cue-bid which already has to cope with a lot of different hands.
The second one traditionally was also played as a constructive but is now typically played as competitive, showing a sound t/o double and 4-card support.
The third one - the one that started this thread - could fit into either category. Personally I'd still treat it as constructive once opener has passed on the second round, even though partner's 1S was a free bid but I can see arguments either way.

[I think I've just said what JLOGIC said]