[barmar]

jillybean, on 2012-March-31, 00:03, said:

I don't understand how for example, New Zealand Bridge can offer teams events with duplicated boards, hand records US$3.20 for two 12-14 board matches.
US$40 for at least 96 boards in a biggish tournament, duplicated boards, hand records and a meal.

What does NZ Bridge have that the mightly ACBL doesn't have?

Our local sectional Swiss is usually around 60 tables. That means 30 sets of 56 boards, or over 1600 boards.

[Cascade]

barmar, on 2012-March-31, 21:20, said:

Our local sectional Swiss is usually around 60 tables. That means 30 sets of 56 boards, or over 1600 boards.

If boards are duplicated then I think you can share between more than two tables.

[gerry]

barmar, on 2012-March-31, 21:20, said:

Our local sectional Swiss is usually around 60 tables. That means 30 sets of 56 boards, or over 1600 boards.

At for example the Gold Coast Congress in Australia they have 400+ tables in action during the teams swiss and the boards are, of course, duplicated.

[jillybean]

barmar, on 2012-March-31, 21:20, said:

Our local sectional Swiss is usually around 60 tables. That means 30 sets of 56 boards, or over 1600 boards.

gerry, on 2012-April-01, 00:16, said:

At for example the Gold Coast Congress in Australia they have 400+ tables in action during the teams swiss and the boards are, of course, duplicated.

I don't understand the logistics of duplicating boards for a 60 table event.
What is needed? More volunteers, more boards, more dealing machines?

[gordontd]

barmar, on 2012-March-31, 21:20, said:

Our local sectional Swiss is usually around 60 tables. That means 30 sets of 56 boards, or over 1600 boards.

8 board rounds? 15 sets of boards. Plus a couple of spares.

[pigpenz]

jillybean, on 2012-April-01, 00:35, said:

I don't understand the logistics of duplicating boards for a 60 table event.
What is needed? More volunteers, more boards, more dealing machines?

I think some districts make duplicating machines available, for a fee to units when
holding sectionals, regionals are probably underwritten by the districts.

[jillybean]

Yes, they do. So this is an added expense that the units, districts deem to be unnecessary?

[FrancesHinden]

Vampyr, on 2012-March-20, 16:34, said:

I guess, but at the time it seemed pretty clear that Jourdain remembered the deal from a magazine. It seems a little implausible anyway that he would have come across the hand-dealt board twice.

We are lucky, really. In the other thread the ACBL event was a serious event, yet they were using hand-dealt boards. I am glad that these are a thing of the (distant) past in the EBU.

I'm not. The Spring Foursomes got worse when they switched to duplicated boards.
In the early rounds, there are huge, and basically insoluble, security problems. There's really no alternative to simply hoping no-one will cheat.
In the semi-finals it means (together with the BBO broadcast) that both matches have to follow the same schedule - start each set at the same time. This is really, really, frustrating if the other match is being very slow.

The difference, of course, is that this is a KO event.

[pigpenz]

jillybean, on 2012-April-01, 12:45, said:

Yes, they do. So this is an added expense that the units, districts deem to be unnecessary?

alot times yes.
In the 80's barometer finals were the thing qualifying then final barometer...back then never saw duplication
for flight A teams or KO's...we just dealt.

[Vampyr]

Way behind on the thread, but just to clarify, yes I meant win/loss.

[Vampyr]

daveharty, on 2012-March-30, 11:19, said:

by the time the round is 35-40 minutes old, the early finishers are wandering freely among those tables still playing, and standing in pairs or small clusters of people discussing the round's points of interest, all within earshot of active tables.

I would love to see someone try this one in the EBU.

[phil_20686]

daveharty, on 2012-March-30, 11:19, said:

In every regional or sectional team event that I've ever witnessed (all of which were hand-dealt), by the time the round is 35-40 minutes old, the early finishers are wandering freely among those tables still playing, and standing in pairs or small clusters of people discussing the round's points of interest, all within earshot of active tables. The directors will frequently make a plea for calm, but as they are engaged in the busiest part of the round dealing with incoming score reports, and as nobody has ever actually received a penalty for such behavior as far as I'm aware, such pleas are almost universally ignored; at best the chaos is momentarily reduced to a dull roar.

I have never experience this in an EBU event. Occasionally, if you are one of the last few tables in play in a large event there will be some level of background noise.

Sounds like your events are poorly planned. Is there no place to stand and chat outside? Normally the EBU events are held in hotels of some description, and by the simple expedient of putting the hand records outside the door they insure that basically everyone leaves immediately upon finishing a session.

[Vampyr]

gordontd, on 2012-March-29, 07:07, said:

We'll see when she replies, but I'd be a bit surprised if so, because that's not a method that's ever been used here and, although Stefanie is American, I don't think she's played much in the ACBL for a very long time.

LOL last time I played more than a biannual session in the ACBL was before VPs, before platinum points, before bracketed knockouts, etc. Fire had been tamed, of that I am certain*, but any other details are lost in the mists of time.

*Edit: because there was always a smoking room at the end of the hall.

[the hog]

barmar, on 2012-March-31, 21:20, said:

Our local sectional Swiss is usually around 60 tables. That means 30 sets of 56 boards, or over 1600 boards.

So you get duplicating machines, whats the big deal? (Sorry!)

[the hog]

Vampyr, on 2012-April-01, 16:43, said:

I would love to see someone try this one in the EBU.

Or in Australia for that matter.

[barmar]

the hog, on 2012-April-01, 18:02, said:

So you get duplicating machines, whats the big deal? (Sorry!)

Of course you use duplicating machines. But 1600 boards is a huge number of boards to duplicate (even with machines) and transport. With hand-dealing they only need about 200 boards for 60 tables. A two-session pair game needs about twice that many.

Someone said that you can share boards between more than two tables, so you don't need so many. How does this work?

[gordontd]

barmar, on 2012-April-01, 22:46, said:

Someone said that you can share boards between more than two tables, so you don't need so many. How does this work?

You put boards out around the entire room, two at a time, and get the players to pass each completed board to the next table. So, for eight board matches you need a minimum of one set for four tables.

[phil_20686]

I don't really understand your point barmar. Boards are not that expensive, considering how many tournaments use you get out of them. The dealing machines I saw in china took huge stacks of boards and seemed to deal several a minute, so you could easily deal 1600 boards in a single day of preparation. If you had several machines you could probably do it in the morning before the tournament began.

You just get your regional association to invest and then they cart the machines around in a van to every tournament, or have them at a central location and just cart the boards back and forward. The EBU seems to run about twenty or so national events a year, so they get plenty of use. Assuming they last several years, dividing by all the entrants in 20 tournaments a year for five years does not add much at all to the cost of each tournament.

[Vampyr]

barmar, on 2012-April-01, 22:46, said:

Someone said that you can share boards between more than two tables, so you don't need so many. How does this work?

gordontd, on 2012-April-02, 01:34, said:

You put boards out around the entire room, two at a time, and get the players to pass each completed board to the next table. So, for eight board matches you need a minimum of one set for four tables.

Surely the ACBL is not so far behind in technology that they haven't worked out passing boards yet!

[barmar]

Vampyr, on 2012-April-02, 07:03, said:

Surely the ACBL is not so far behind in technology that they haven't worked out passing boards yet!

We figured it out for pair games, we've just never had to do it in team games. We have caddies swapping the boards between the two tables of the team match.