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Teammatch
Do you agree with 2♣ ?
What would you bid now with an expert pd ? ( i am not interested in specific/custom agreements)
Pd doubles and then bids 3NT
#1
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Posted 2012-March-17, 14:10
Teammatch
Do you agree with 2♣ ?
What would you bid now with an expert pd ? ( i am not interested in specific/custom agreements)
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
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Posted 2012-March-17, 14:48
MrAce, on 2012-March-17, 14:10, said:
Teammatch
Do you agree with 2♣ ?
What would you bid now with an expert pd ? ( i am not interested in specific/custom agreements)
(1) Yes. It's close, but jumping the bidding with that anemic suit is not my idea of a good idea. Plus your long side suit won't generate tricks unless....
(2) Nothing. Pass 3NT expecting to make 9 or 10 tricks.
...unless you are fielding a psyche here, which might be why this hand is here.
There is a big difference between a good decision and a good result. Let's keep our posts about good decisions rather than "gotcha" results!
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Posted 2012-March-17, 15:02
I would have bid 3♣ (2♣ could be on zero points). I would pass 3NT with some confusion about partners bid. I guess he must have running spades, something like AKQJxxx HAx DQTx Cx
--Ben--
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Posted 2012-March-17, 15:07
He is probably 22-24 balanced and thought 2N is too little. Nothing to be excited about, easy pass imo.
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Posted 2012-March-17, 15:31
bluecalm, on 2012-March-17, 15:07, said:
He is probably 22-24 balanced and thought 2N is too little. Nothing to be excited about, easy pass imo.
You really think your LHO opened with 8-10 hcp and what is probably at most six hearts, and more likely five in first seat?
--Ben--
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Posted 2012-March-17, 17:41
Agree with 2♣ (Ben???!!!).
I will not comment because I know the hand.
I will not comment because I know the hand.
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Posted 2012-March-17, 17:43
I want to say what went thru my mind, whether u guys agree or not...
I think the meaning of DBL and then 3NT doesnt change just because we have 8 hcp in our hand. Pd doesnt know that we have 8 hcp and that we can figure out he doesnt actually have what he is supposed to have in his hand.
Did LHO open with 8 hcp ? I dunno tbh, my pd says he did.
Can pd be bidding with a long running suit ? Minors in my hand says NO. Can he have long running ♠ suit ? Perhaps, but then why didnt he bid ♠ after double ?
I think the meaning of DBL and then 3NT doesnt change just because we have 8 hcp in our hand. Pd doesnt know that we have 8 hcp and that we can figure out he doesnt actually have what he is supposed to have in his hand.
Did LHO open with 8 hcp ? I dunno tbh, my pd says he did.
Can pd be bidding with a long running suit ? Minors in my hand says NO. Can he have long running ♠ suit ? Perhaps, but then why didnt he bid ♠ after double ?
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
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Posted 2012-March-17, 22:06
Could West have ♠A109x-♥AQ9xxx-♦xx-♣x and partner ♠KQJ-♥KJx-♦QJ10-♣AKQx? I pass 3NT.
A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem Albert Einstein
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Posted 2012-March-17, 22:22
Phil, on 2012-March-17, 17:41, said:
Agree with 2♣ (Ben???!!!).
I will not comment because I know the hand.
I will not comment because I know the hand.
Did I say I would bid 3♣? Don't know why I said that.. did someone change the hand?
Can't blame that bid on St. Patrick's Day partying, cause it hadn't started when I said that.
Oh well, 2♣ is clearly 100% right bid.
The question is what is 3NT.
Traditionally, takeout double, rebid cheapest NT is 18-21, jump in notrump 22-24. Tradition doesn't occur very often, and recent trend is to see people make this bid to show a strong hand and a source of tricks or strong balanced 22-24. Either way, I still pass.
--Ben--
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Posted 2012-March-18, 02:58
Perhaps partner's source of tricks is in clubs? His hand may have improved when he heard of club length, eg AKJ Ax J10x AKxxx. I'd bid 4NT, half-expecting partner to bid 6♣.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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Posted 2012-March-18, 10:05
MrAce, on 2012-March-17, 17:43, said:
I want to say what went thru my mind, whether u guys agree or not...
I think the meaning of DBL and then 3NT doesnt change just because we have 8 hcp in our hand. Pd doesnt know that we have 8 hcp and that we can figure out he doesnt actually have what he is supposed to have in his hand.
Did LHO open with 8 hcp ? I dunno tbh, my pd says he did.
Can pd be bidding with a long running suit ? Minors in my hand says NO. Can he have long running ♠ suit ? Perhaps, but then why didnt he bid ♠ after double ?
I think the meaning of DBL and then 3NT doesnt change just because we have 8 hcp in our hand. Pd doesnt know that we have 8 hcp and that we can figure out he doesnt actually have what he is supposed to have in his hand.
Did LHO open with 8 hcp ? I dunno tbh, my pd says he did.
Can pd be bidding with a long running suit ? Minors in my hand says NO. Can he have long running ♠ suit ? Perhaps, but then why didnt he bid ♠ after double ?
Because he had a hand that was too good for a non forcing rebid and didn't want jam the auction with a jump.?
In retrospect I like my bidding but at the time I was a little uncomfortable.
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Posted 2012-March-18, 14:37
gnasher, on 2012-March-18, 02:58, said:
Perhaps partner's source of tricks is in clubs? His hand may have improved when he heard of club length, eg AKJ Ax J10x AKxxx. I'd bid 4NT, half-expecting partner to bid 6♣.
That was one of the possibility for me as well, unless LHO was joking, so i did bid 4NT
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
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Posted 2012-March-18, 14:39
Statto, on 2012-March-17, 22:06, said:
Could West have ♠A109x-♥AQ9xxx-♦xx-♣x and partner ♠KQJ-♥KJx-♦QJ10-♣AKQx? I pass 3NT.
If pd has that you are safe in 4 NT
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
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Posted 2012-March-18, 14:45
Anyway, pd had
AKQxxx
KQx
Qx
Ax
They led a ♥, pd won in hand with K, cashed ♠A and saw 5-0 break (opener has void). Pd then cashed ♣ A and played a ♣. They were 3-3 split honors. At this point defense erred and didnt play ♦. Making while other table was down in 4♠.
AKQxxx
KQx
Qx
Ax
They led a ♥, pd won in hand with K, cashed ♠A and saw 5-0 break (opener has void). Pd then cashed ♣ A and played a ♣. They were 3-3 split honors. At this point defense erred and didnt play ♦. Making while other table was down in 4♠.
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
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Posted 2012-March-18, 14:48
My view is that on such hands 4S makes more often than 3N. Too often they just need one tempo to establish setting tricks while we have our 10 ready but lack the tempo.
Anyway, I think his bid is reasonable and there shouldn't be much harm if we bid assuming 22-24balanced (or w/e the range)
Anyway, I think his bid is reasonable and there shouldn't be much harm if we bid assuming 22-24balanced (or w/e the range)
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Posted 2012-March-18, 15:23
MrAce, on 2012-March-18, 14:45, said:
Anyway, pd had
AKQxxx
KQx
Jx
Ax
They led a ♥, pd won in hand with K, cashed ♠A and saw 5-0 break (opener has void). Pd then cashed ♣ A and played a ♣. They were 3-3 split honors. At this point defense erred and didnt play ♦. Making while other table was down in 4♠.
AKQxxx
KQx
Jx
Ax
They led a ♥, pd won in hand with K, cashed ♠A and saw 5-0 break (opener has void). Pd then cashed ♣ A and played a ♣. They were 3-3 split honors. At this point defense erred and didnt play ♦. Making while other table was down in 4♠.
Call me crazy, but on a ♥ opening lead, isn't ducking the 1st spade a 100% line? Well, 99% --> it can fail if opener has 5 spades in addition to 5 hearts.
There is a big difference between a good decision and a good result. Let's keep our posts about good decisions rather than "gotcha" results!
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Posted 2012-March-18, 15:32
HighLow21, on 2012-March-18, 15:23, said:
Call me crazy, but on a ♥ opening lead, isn't ducking the 1st spade a 100% line? Well, 99% --> it can fail if opener has 5 spades in addition to 5 hearts.
You duck a ♠, they play ♦, u duck another ♠ they play another ♦
You make 4♠+2♦+1♣+1♥ How is 8 tricks % 100 in 4 NT ?
If spades were 4-1 he would easily make by cashing AK ♠, seeing 4-1, giving them a ♠ scoring 5♠+2♦+1♣+2♥ unless defense shifts to ♣ when in with ♠
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
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Posted 2012-March-18, 20:50
MrAce, on 2012-March-18, 15:32, said:
You duck a ♠, they play ♦, u duck another ♠ they play another ♦
You make 4♠+2♦+1♣+1♥ How is 8 tricks % 100 in 4 NT ?
If spades were 4-1 he would easily make by cashing AK ♠, seeing 4-1, giving them a ♠ scoring 5♠+2♦+1♣+2♥ unless defense shifts to ♣ when in with ♠
You make 4♠+2♦+1♣+1♥ How is 8 tricks % 100 in 4 NT ?
If spades were 4-1 he would easily make by cashing AK ♠, seeing 4-1, giving them a ♠ scoring 5♠+2♦+1♣+2♥ unless defense shifts to ♣ when in with ♠
Apparently I can't count to 9 with my head cold.
(And I thought the contract was 3nt)
There is a big difference between a good decision and a good result. Let's keep our posts about good decisions rather than "gotcha" results!
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Posted 2012-March-18, 22:41
MrAce, on 2012-March-18, 14:45, said:
Anyway, pd had
AKQxxx
KQx
Qx
Ax
They led a ♥, pd won in hand with K, cashed ♠A and saw 5-0 break (opener has void). Pd then cashed ♣ A and played a ♣. They were 3-3 split honors. At this point defense erred and didnt play ♦. Making while other table was down in 4♠.
AKQxxx
KQx
Qx
Ax
They led a ♥, pd won in hand with K, cashed ♠A and saw 5-0 break (opener has void). Pd then cashed ♣ A and played a ♣. They were 3-3 split honors. At this point defense erred and didnt play ♦. Making while other table was down in 4♠.
This isn't how the play went. They defended terribly. I won the heart lead on the board (dummy had T8xx, they led the 9 covered and held). Club to K. Then a high spade.
Along the way, RHO cleared hearts which gave me #10.
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Posted 2012-March-18, 22:53
I would pass partner's rebid of 3 NT. 2 C is fine for your original response. Typically, that shows 0-7 HCP, but sometimes it's easier to add value to a hand if partner makes another call, then overstate your values originally.
The only reason to bid on, is if you think slam is likely. Even with the D AK, there's just no way for you to know if that's a possibility. If opener has psyched and slam is cold, so be it. Better to stay fixed and take your sure positive.
Partner is extremely lucky to find you with the diamond pieces and a partial H stopper. You could be on zero points.
I think partner's correct call after your 2 C bid is 3 S. Partner does have 20 HCP, but the H KQ are in front of the 1 H opener and probably not worth their full value. I would have expected partner to have a solid spade suit maybe AKQJxx for his 3 NT bid.
With 2 QTs, I'd raise partner's 3 S bid to 4 S. 4 S would be a reasonable contract, all else being equal. The 5-0 spade break is normally only a 4% probability, but with the H opening bid it's a little more likely -- but still well below 10%.
The only reason to bid on, is if you think slam is likely. Even with the D AK, there's just no way for you to know if that's a possibility. If opener has psyched and slam is cold, so be it. Better to stay fixed and take your sure positive.
Partner is extremely lucky to find you with the diamond pieces and a partial H stopper. You could be on zero points.
I think partner's correct call after your 2 C bid is 3 S. Partner does have 20 HCP, but the H KQ are in front of the 1 H opener and probably not worth their full value. I would have expected partner to have a solid spade suit maybe AKQJxx for his 3 NT bid.
With 2 QTs, I'd raise partner's 3 S bid to 4 S. 4 S would be a reasonable contract, all else being equal. The 5-0 spade break is normally only a 4% probability, but with the H opening bid it's a little more likely -- but still well below 10%.