[jillybean]

I am posting this hand on behalf a friend who is inexperienced and wanting advice on hand evaluation.

Playing SAYC, 3 passes to you , opponents not bidding. A,AK7643,9762,J4

1♥:1♠
2♦:2N
3♥:3N

3N - 3

Partner says I have a 2♥ bid, I should not bid 2♦ on xxxx but having done so I must pass 2N.
I have a 2 suited hand, if I had more values I would have opened 1nt. I want to play in ♥ or ♦,
it's partners fault we are too high. Partners hand was J874,J,AQJ,QT762

[jjbrr]

honest question since I never learned SAYC very much: should partner bid 2C instead of 1S?

anyway, i wouldn't bid 2D. the hearts are great, the diamonds are bad, the stiff spade ace is bad, and i have minimum values. lots of things in favor of 2H

[the hog]

I would bid 2H with your hand. The Hearts are pretty good and the Ds are awful. Bid where you live. To be honest, I do not know whether 3H is forcing in SAYC; I suspect it is. Your partner should pass 2H.

[squealydan]

2♥ for me every time.

I'd need something like ♥Kxxxxx ♦AQxx to suppress the fact that I have a 6-long major in order to show a 4-card minor.

[nigel_k]

I will usually bid the minor unless there is a significant difference in suit quality, which there is here obviously. For example, if it was A KQxxxx Kxxx Jx I would bid 2♦ but would consider 2♥ instead if the diamonds were any weaker.

I also think that 3♥ should be non forcing on the given auction. If you want to offer a choice of games, bid 3♣ and let partner give preference to hearts with a doubleton if they have that.

Responder's bidding is worse IMO. I doubt that the sort of partner who bids 3NT over 3♥ would have let you play 2♥ anyway.

[mike777]

jillybean, on 2012-March-15, 23:16, said:

I am posting this hand on behalf a friend who is inexperienced and wanting advice on hand evaluation.

Playing SAYC, 3 passed to you , opponents not bidding. A,AK7643,9762,J4

1♥:1♠
2♦:2N
3♥:3N

3N - 3

Partner says I have a 2♥ bid, I should not bid 2♦ on xxxx but having done so I must pass 2N.
I have a 2 suited hand, if I had more values I would have opened 1nt. I want to play in ♥ or ♦,
it's partners fault we are too high. Partners hand was J874,J,AQJ,QT762

easy 2h rebid not 2d


for me pard rebid 2nt too much....... Iwould just pass 2d.....but you have an easy 2h rebid that is the biggest error

your rebid over 2nt bigger error

so 90=10 error

[Antrax]

I always thought (= read somewhere) that if you can show 9 cards out of your hand or 6 cards out of your hand, you usually show 9, so the 2♦ rebid is generally (though probably not in this case) more descriptive (= better), no?

[mike777]

Antrax, on 2012-March-16, 00:45, said:

I always thought (= read somewhere) that if you can show 9 cards out of your hand or 6 cards out of your hand, you usually show 9, so the 2♦ rebid is generally (though probably not in this case) more descriptive (= better), no?

NO ...big NO

minors suck...if you want to bid them have extras......bias against minors. xxxx minors suck even more......

[Antrax]

Well, if it's a *big* no I guess no explanation of the logic to the opposite is required. Anyway, as misguided as it might be, in my partnership we play that 2♥ is a hand willing to play opposite a small singleton, so many six-card suits don't qualify if we can make another bid.

[mike777]

Antrax, on 2012-March-16, 00:51, said:

Well, if it's a *big* no I guess no explanation of the logic to the opposite is required. Anyway, as misguided as it might be, in my partnership we play that 2♥ is a hand willing to play opposite a small singleton, so many six-card suits don't qualify if we can make another bid.

in what world does xxxx in d qualify another bid?


yes 2h says pard Ihave minimum......6h.......but you did open the bidding....so.....how much can you have for 1h and 2h? IN 4th seat?

[Antrax]

Should I have posted "generally" a couple more times? Did my "(though probably not in this case)" throw you off? I wasn't advocating it on this hand, particularly because I don't really feel I'm qualified to answer anything, but I was wondering about the general principle, since the title referred to this shape and not this particular hand.

[mike777]

Antrax, on 2012-March-16, 01:11, said:

Should I have posted "generally" a couple more times? Did my "(though probably not in this case)" throw you off? I wasn't advocating it on this hand, particularly because I don't really feel I'm qualified to answer anything, but I was wondering about the general principle, since the title referred to this shape and not this particular hand.

If you think your 6-4 is minimum in your style rebid 2 major...if not rebid 2 minor...

general principle.

[HighLow21]

Grunching a bit, but 2♥ rebid the first time around. It's the best way you can say you have a weak, 1-suited hand, which is what you have.

[jillybean]

nigel_k, on 2012-March-16, 00:35, said:

I also think that 3♥ should be non forcing on the given auction. If you want to offer a choice of games, bid 3♣ and let partner give preference to hearts with a doubleton if they have that.

Hi, do you think is it standard to play 3♥/2N as nf or would this be by specific agreement?

[MrAce]

jillybean, on 2012-March-16, 02:30, said:

Hi, do you think is it standard to play 3♥/2N as nf or would this be by specific agreement?

Here is some notes from a very good pair in USA about which bids mean what after responders invitational 2 NT ( i think i posted this in the past but w/e)

A= Opener's first suit
B= Opener's 2nd suit


ABA
A--something
B--2NT
3A shows extras and forcing, accepting 2 NT invitation and seeking the best game with 6+ card in A suit

AAB
A--something
2A--2NT
3B wants to play partscore in A suit unless responder supports B suit with 4 or more cards.

[Codo]

Antrax, on 2012-March-16, 00:45, said:

I always thought (= read somewhere) that if you can show 9 cards out of your hand or 6 cards out of your hand, you usually show 9, so the 2♦ rebid is generally (though probably not in this case) more descriptive (= better), no?

YES YES Yes, a big yes (just to give a counterweight to Mike).


Seriously: What is right to do with 6/4 is a style thing. There had been more then one discussion in the BW whether you should always rebid your major, always the minor or whether this should depend on your overall strength.

Like Nigel, I need a good reason not to show my second suit. This hand does qualify, but it is the exception.
And I would agree that 3 ♥ should be non forcing. Partner is limitted, if I need to force him, I bid 3 ♣.

[Zelandakh]

2♥ rebid? or 2♥ opening? This looks like the latter to me...

[Antrax]

With a side four card suit, opening strength and two aces?

[Zelandakh]

Antrax, on 2012-March-16, 03:51, said:

With a side four card suit, opening strength and two aces?

Did you notice the 3 pass cards already on the table?

[Antrax]

Nope, thanks for pointing that out.