[RGranville]

In most systems you need to be able to open 2NT with a 5 card major, so Puppet Stayman is pretty much essential after a 2NT opening.

Whether to open 1NT with a 5 card major is more debatable, but using Puppet Stayman means that you can't use Stayman on weak hands, which is a particular drawback playing weak NT.

But it is possible to employ some fairly unused sequences after regular Stayman to find most 5-3 major suit fits.

I'm assuming a fairly standard scheme of responses, i.e. direct 3C/3D invitational, direct 3H/3S slam try, 3C/3D via Stayman GF, 3H/3S after Stayman and a 2D rebid 5-4 in the majors - perhaps Smolen.

With interest in a 5-3 major suit fit, you use regular Stayman as usual. If opener rebids 2D, then there are no further problems.

If opener shows a major suit, this may be 4 or 5 cards. Responder can make use of the rarely used bids in the other major, as follows:


Rebids after 1NT – 2♣ – 2♥
2♠ 4+ card spade suit. If responder has enough for game, he might have interest in a 5-3 heart fit.
2NT Denies 4 spades, therefore invitational with interest in a 5-3 heart fit.
3NT Denies 4 spades, therefore interest in a 5-3 heart fit.

Rebids after 1NT – 2♣ – 2♥ – 2♠
2NT Minimum, not 4 spades, 4 or 5 hearts. Responder bids 3♥ if he wants to play in a 5-3 heart fit.
3♣ Maximum, not 4 spades, 4 or 5 hearts. Responder bids 3♥ if he wants to play in a 5-3 heart fit.
3♠ Minimum, 4 spades.
4♠ Maximum, 4 spades.

Rebids after 1NT – 2♣ – 2♠
2NT Invitational with 4 hearts.
3♥ Interest in a 5-3 heart fit.
3NT No interest in a 5-3 heart fit.

I've devised this fairly recently and haven't yet had a chance to play it, but it seems to address the main issues.

[gnasher]

RGranville, on 2013-August-23, 05:06, said:

In most systems you need to be able to open 2NT with a 5 card major, so Puppet Stayman is pretty much essential after a 2NT opening.

That's a non-sequitur. For Puppet Stayman to be beneficial, let alone essential, two other conditions would have to be met:
- Being able to find a 5-3 major-suit fit gains overall.
- The cost of playing Puppet Stayman on other deals doesn't outweigh this gain.

[Zelandakh]

More than this, the next line was wrong too.

RGranville, on 2013-August-23, 05:06, said:

using Puppet Stayman means that you can't use Stayman on weak hands, which is a particular drawback playing weak NT.

Playing regular Stayman you use Exit Stayman with a weak hand and (roughly) 3+ hearts, 3+ spades, 4+ diamonds. Playing Puppet Stayman you use Exit Stayman with (roughly) 2+ hearts, 2+ spades, 5+ diamonds. Moreover, if you are clever and run your weak diamond takeouts through 2♣, you get to stop in 2♦ considerably more often playing Puppet than regular Stayman. So to say that Puppet cannot be used on weak hands is just wrong. Better to say that it is used on a slightly different set of weak hands.

As for your new sequences, as far as I can see you have no strong raise after a 2♠ response when using 3♥ in this way. That is a major loss. Perhaps you can improve this by using an "unused" sequence after a 2♦ transfer to check back for a 3-5 spade fit instead.

[rhm]

gnasher, on 2013-August-23, 06:01, said:

That's a non-sequitur. For Puppet Stayman to be beneficial, let alone essential, two other conditions would have to be met:
- Being able to find a 5-3 major-suit fit gains overall.
- The cost of playing Puppet Stayman on other deals doesn't outweigh this gain.

+1

Rainer Herrmann

[32519]

Zelandakh, on 2013-August-23, 06:25, said:

Playing regular Stayman you use Exit Stayman with a weak hand and (roughly) 3+ hearts, 3+ spades, 4+ diamonds. Playing Puppet Stayman you use Exit Stayman with (roughly) 2+ hearts, 2+ spades, 5+ diamonds. Moreover, if you are clever and run your weak diamond takeouts through 2♣, you get to stop in 2♦ considerably more often playing Puppet than regular Stayman. So to say that Puppet cannot be used on weak hands is just wrong. Better to say that it is used on a slightly different set of weak hands.

Amazing, after 203 replies since this thread was started we have a REAL SECOND BENEFIT in playing Puppet Stayman, you can stop in 2♦ with a ♦ bust.

[Zelandakh]

32519, on 2013-August-23, 07:43, said:

Amazing, after 203 replies since this thread was started we have a REAL SECOND BENEFIT in playing Puppet Stayman, you can stop in 2♦ with a ♦ bust.

Proof positive that my posts are not being read. See #164, #41 and #6. That is the 5th reply and it took until #205 to register!

[mgoetze]

RGranville, on 2013-August-23, 05:06, said:

I'm assuming a fairly standard scheme of responses, i.e. direct 3C/3D invitational, direct 3H/3S slam try, 3C/3D via Stayman GF, 3H/3S after Stayman and a 2D rebid 5-4 in the majors - perhaps Smolen.

Standard in which decade?

[32519]

mgoetze, on 2013-August-23, 16:24, said:

Standard in which decade?

That's pretty much how SAYC plays it.

[Trinidad]

Zelandakh, on 2013-August-23, 08:01, said:

Proof positive that my posts are not being read.

I wouldn't generalize. I think your posts are very well read, but there are "numerous" exceptions to every rule.

Rik

[32519]

Here is one of Edgar Kaplan's quotes from TBW. Anyone know if he changed his mind?

"I do not guarantee I'll never open one notrump holding a five-card major, but so far in a long bridge career I have never found the occasion to do so."

"Vanderbilt in Philly, III", TBW 10/1996, p. 9