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Eval over a red two suiter

#1 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2012-March-08, 10:01

R/W and partner opens 1♣. RHO overcalls 2N to show the reds.

♠KTxxxx ♥Kxx ♦x ♣Jxx.

You can bid a NF 3♠ or 3♥ to show at least an invite+ in spades.
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#2 User is offline   ahydra 

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Posted 2012-March-08, 10:04

Am I playing teams or MPs?

ahydra
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#3 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2012-March-08, 10:04

3♠

If I can't bid 3♠ on this, what do I need?

It's closer to a pass, for me, than to an invitational 3♥ (I am not saying that I see pass as reasonable). Partner has rights over 3♠...it's not like I show a yarb.
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#4 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2012-March-08, 10:06

Its teams. Good opponents this time.
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#5 User is offline   kayin801 

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Posted 2012-March-08, 10:11

A bad 3♠ bid is still a 3♠ bid.
I once yelled at my partner for discarding the 'wrong' card when he was subjected to a squeeze that I allowed by giving the wrong count with too high a card. Now he's allowed to pitch aces when the opponents have the king in the dummy. At trick 2. When he could have followed suit. And blame me.

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#6 User is offline   CSGibson 

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Posted 2012-March-08, 10:47

3♠ wtp.
Chris Gibson
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#7 User is offline   kfay 

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Posted 2012-March-08, 11:18

3♠
Kevin Fay
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#8 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-March-08, 11:28

Pass, then 3S? Maybe I am influenced by my own style: 3S, though NF, would be invite values with spades, whereas 3H would be G.F. with spades. I know that is not what OP's conditions are, but it is hard to imagine the narrow gap between 3S now, and delayed 3S after passing with the OP style.
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#9 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2012-March-08, 11:48

View Postaguahombre, on 2012-March-08, 11:28, said:

Pass, then 3S? Maybe I am influenced by my own style: 3S, though NF, would be invite values with spades, whereas 3H would be G.F. with spades. I know that is not what OP's conditions are, but it is hard to imagine the narrow gap between 3S now, and delayed 3S after passing with the OP style.

I think the main issue is trying to anticipate what LHO will do. Given our stiff ♦, there seems to be reason to expect a minimum of a 9 card fit, with 10 being common, and maybe more.....so I think there are dangers and include:

LHO bids 3 red and you balance with 3♠....you have removed the pressure from the opps and given them a better chance of doing the right thing, rather than subjecting LHO to a decision as to whether to stretch over 3♠

LHO bids 4 red and now can you afford to balance 4♠? Can you afford not to? Wouldn't you feel a LOT happier had you bid 3♠? If partner were to pass 4 red, you are done....and if partner bids 4♠, you will expect to have a good play for the contract.

There are other problems associated with pass, while (and I am not ignoring them) the risks from a slightly aggressive 3♠ appear to be less significant, at least to me.
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
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#10 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2012-March-08, 15:03

This is the type of hand that you play u/u for...
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#11 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2012-March-09, 10:00

I must be getting aggro in my old age.

At the table, I thought this was an invitational 3♠ call so I bid 3♥. At these colors I believe this sets up a force as well, so when the auction continued:



I had the choice of doubling off 5♥ or bidding 5♠. I chose to double. -750 on a suboptimum lead. Mark held: QTx x Axxx KQxxx.

Teammates said my bidding was 'reasonable'. umok.
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#12 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2012-March-09, 15:13

You have nice teammates
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#13 User is offline   bluecalm 

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Posted 2012-March-09, 15:38

Is it really that clear 3♠ ?
I would bid that as nothing good ever happened from hiding majors 6 carders but I would feel a bit worried about going for a number there.

Quote

I believe this sets up a force as well


Invite+ shouldn't set force imo, especially in situations where both sides could have a lot of distribution.
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#14 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2012-March-11, 09:20

Bidding is tempting, but I would pass...
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#15 User is offline   benlessard 

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Posted 2012-March-11, 10:48

Even with KQxxxx in spades rather than KTxxxx i would still just bid 3S NF, non inv.
From Psych "I mean, Gus and I never see eye-to-eye on work stuff.
For instance, he doesn't like being used as a human shield when we're being shot at.
I happen to think it's a very noble way to meet one's maker, especially for a guy like him.
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