[aguahombre]

 barmar, on 2012-March-15, 23:21, said:

How would a f2f club know? Has any club director ever asked a patron for ID?

At least f2F contains the word "face". I have misplaced my Phil Clayton mask.

[barmar]

 aguahombre, on 2012-March-15, 23:52, said:

At least f2F contains the word "face". I have misplaced my Phil Clayton mask.

You obviously couldn't pull it off at the clubs you or Phil frequents. But if you walked into my club and claimed to be Phil Clayton and knew his ACBL number, I don't think anyone would challenge you.

They could also easily pull it off at a tournament. At most ACBL tournaments, the players just fill out an entry form, and then caddies pick them up from the tables. The person putting the names into the computer doesn't see who's at what tables, so even if they know the random or Phil, they'd probably never notice the mismatch between the name on the entry and who's sitting at the table.

[mike777]

I dont know about others but I am often asked for some form of Id....some form....


I fully grant if you want to cheat on this form you could....but they do make more than a zero effort. If you want to cheat you really need to make a real full effort.


Note all or almost all of these checkers are free unpaid volunt.....they are not full paid cheater checkers...

[Vampyr]

 barmar, on 2012-March-16, 01:01, said:

You obviously couldn't pull it off at the clubs you or Phil frequents. But if you walked into my club and claimed to be Phil Clayton and knew his ACBL number, I don't think anyone would challenge you.

They could also easily pull it off at a tournament. At most ACBL tournaments, the players just fill out an entry form, and then caddies pick them up from the tables. The person putting the names into the computer doesn't see who's at what tables, so even if they know the random or Phil, they'd probably never notice the mismatch between the name on the entry and who's sitting at the table.

What an easy way to earn masterpoints -- instead of hiring a pro to play with you, hire a pro to play for you while you catch up with the X Factor. Even if the pro was well-known, you could probably escape detection if you played too in the same section, but got the pros to put the names of you and your partner while you did the opposite.

Somehow I don't think that this is as big a racket as other posters are suggesting.

When I was in high school a friend asked me to take SATs (a college admission criterion) for her in a distant venue. I refused, but I wonder how much of this actually takes place? Maybe there are people who put themselves about as "hired guns" for this, for the accountancy or actuarial exams, for police and other civil-service promotion exams, etc.

[HighLow21]

 Vampyr, on 2012-March-16, 10:38, said:

What an easy way to earn masterpoints -- instead of hiring a pro to play with you, hire a pro to play for you while you catch up with the X Factor. Even if the pro was well-known, you could probably escape detection if you played too in the same section, but got the pros to put the names of you and your partner while you did the opposite.

Somehow I don't think that this is as big a racket as other posters are suggesting.

When I was in high school a friend asked me to take SATs (a college admission criterion) for her in a distant venue. I refused, but I wonder how much of this actually takes place? Maybe there are people who put themselves about as "hired guns" for this, for the accountancy or actuarial exams, for police and other civil-service promotion exams, etc.

There are people who actually do this; I was asked to do it once for the SATs, I was offered $20,000, and I completely rejected the idea for anything short of $500,000.

[barmar]

Indeed, a few months ago SAT cheating was in the news quite a bit, and it came to mind when I was writing my post.

I suspect none of us discussing this think highly enough of masterpoints that we can understand the motivation to hire someone to play for us. But we probably also have a hard time understanding the motivation to cheat at bridge in the first place. People who do this kind of thing have different value systems than we do. Their egos are stronger than their morals.

[inquiry]

 mike777, on 2012-March-16, 01:13, said:

I dont know about others but I am often asked for some form of Id....some form....

That is odd based on my experience. I have never been asked for an ID. Generally, one member of a partnership stands in a line to buy an entry. He forks over some amount of cash (don't even take credit cards) to a director who most of the time doesn't even look up. He gets his entry form and walks away. He can give it to someone else to fill out and play... that is the person who purshases it doesn't even have to play. Same thing for a team of six, one guy goes and buys the entry, no ID required.

Now, maybe if your playing in a restricted national championship or something, but even in open nationally rated events, my experience is no one checks... and even if they did, only one person picks up the entries.

[barmar]

 inquiry, on 2012-March-16, 22:46, said:

Now, maybe if your playing in a restricted national championship or something, but even in open nationally rated events, my experience is no one checks... and even if they did, only one person picks up the entries.

In fact, I would expect it to be the NPC -- surely that's one of his responsibilities, while the players concentrate on bridge.

[aguahombre]

This really got to the point of silliness. It is clearly much easier to be someone else on line; and it would be rare for nobody to notice in a f2f tourney that an opponent good enough to boost the mp's of someone else is someone else.

[Vampyr]

 inquiry, on 2012-March-16, 22:46, said:

(don't even take credit cards)

What do you mean by this? Is it impossible to buy entries to American tournaments with credit cards unless you buy them in advance?

[Bbradley62]

in advance??

[Vampyr]

 aguahombre, on 2012-March-17, 15:57, said:

This really got to the point of silliness. It is clearly much easier to be someone else on line; and it would be rare for nobody to notice in a f2f tourney that an opponent good enough to boost the mp's of someone else is someone else.

Provided you checked the names of all of your opposition afterwards. Do people tend to do this? I don't.

[barmar]

 Vampyr, on 2012-March-17, 16:58, said:

What do you mean by this? Is it impossible to buy entries to American tournaments with credit cards unless you buy them in advance?

The only way I know of to buy entries with a credit card is to purchase Bridge Bucks (they look like Monopoly money, and are only good for buying services and merchandise from ACBL). They sell them at NABCs, I don't know if there's a way to purchase them by mail order in advance.

[ArtK78]

 Vampyr, on 2012-March-17, 17:17, said:

Provided you checked the names of all of your opposition afterwards. Do people tend to do this? I don't.

Of course people check. They look at the recap sheets. And they know who they played against.

The idea that a player good enough to be hired to sit in for someone to earn masterpoints would go unnoticed in an ACBL tournament is bizarre.

[TimG]

 ArtK78, on 2012-March-17, 23:25, said:

Of course people check. They look at the recap sheets. And they know who they played against.

The idea that a player good enough to be hired to sit in for someone to earn masterpoints would go unnoticed in an ACBL tournament is bizarre.

If you came to a Maine sectional and played under someone else's name, I doubt anyone would be the wiser.

[TimG]

 olegru, on 2012-March-15, 13:55, said:

Are there any dogs with ACBL masterpoints yet?

I don't know, but you can get a Youth membership to the ACBL for $5 (I think that rate is only good for the first year). So, it could be a cheap experiment.

[aguahombre]

 TimG, on 2012-March-18, 13:38, said:

If you came to a Maine sectional and played under someone else's name, I doubt anyone would be the wiser.

True. I have learned nothing makes them wiser.

[xcurt]

 TimG, on 2012-March-18, 13:52, said:

I don't know, but you can get a Youth membership to the ACBL for $5 (I think that rate is only good for the first year). So, it could be a cheap experiment.

I recall there was once a dog that made LM as the 5th player on Swiss teams (this was before restrictions on how many matches a player could sit out and earn an overall award).

The story was the dog was only caught when he "played" on two teams on the same day in two different tournaments,

This was before my time so I'm not sure how much truth there is to this story but it's certainly plausible given how these events were organized 25 years ago.

[Vampyr]

 aguahombre, on 2012-March-17, 15:57, said:

This really got to the point of silliness. It is clearly much easier to be someone else on line; and it would be rare for nobody to notice in a f2f tourney that an opponent good enough to boost the mp's of someone else is someone else.

This is clear. The diversion into imposters, including dogs, in live bridge is amusing, but online there really is no way of knowing. Ever.

[aguahombre]

 Vampyr, on 2012-March-18, 22:07, said:

This is clear. The diversion into imposters, including dogs, in live bridge is amusing, but online there really is no way of knowing. Ever.

Actually, the dog would have a better chance f2f. If he lifted up his leg on my keyboard he would be dead.