[jillybean]

I'm off to NZ in March and so it's about time I looked at Acol. Does anyone have basic system notes on Benjamanised Acol?

[Cthulhu D]

 jillybean, on 2012-February-23, 17:53, said:

I'm off to NZ in March and so it's about time I looked at Acol. Does anyone have basic system notes on Benjamanised Acol?

http://chrisryall.ne.../acol/index.htm

Is a decent set. NZ is heavily weak NT focused so you might want to bone up on your weak NT defence!

[ahydra]

Here are the bare essentials:

Weak NT, 4cM. Open 1H with 4-4 in H and S, otherwise the higher of two 4-card suits. Unsure on what NZ standards are for what to open with 4441 shapes.
2C is 8 playing tricks in any suit or 21-22 NT. Responder bids 2D pretty much 100% of the time, after which opener shows his hand.
2D is the equivalent of a standard 2C (GF or 23+) - responding methods vary but I like 2H any negative, 2S any positive
2H/S are ordinary weak twos.
2NT is 19-20 balanced. Sometimes people swap the meaning of 2NT and 2C-2D-2NT.

2/1 bids are 10+ points and promise a rebid.
1S-2H guarantees 5, which can lead to the occasional 2C bid on a 3 card suit with 3433. Don't raise partner with just 3 cards unless in competition.
Jump shift responses after 1x openings are normally very strong and should have at least 5 cards.

Common defences to weak NT include Landy (2C = both majors), Astro/Asptro/etc (no idea), or just plain old natural. Pretty much all have X = 15+ any.

Hope this helps

ahydra

[nigel_k]

Probably it depends where you go but in Wellington it is mostly Multi and Muiderberg (they call it Tartan twos but I think it is actually Muiderberg). Anyway I've found that if you say '2C strong, others twos weak' then your partner will look slightly sad and then agree anyway, though may well forget to open weak 2D if they have it. You might even get them to agree to five card majors. Weak NT is almost universal though.

[johntaylor]

 ahydra, on 2012-February-23, 18:23, said:

Here are the bare essentials:



2/1 bids are 10+ points and promise a rebid.


Hope this helps

ahydra

unless the suit opened is rebid 1H-2C-2H= weak hand and and 5 card suit

[Vampyr]

2C is 8 playing tricks in any suit or 21-22 NT. Responder bids 2D pretty much 100% of the time, after which opener shows his hand.
2D is the equivalent of a standard 2C (GF or 23+) - responding methods vary but I like 2H any negative, 2S any positive
[/quote]

And of course there is reverse Benji, where these two are switched.

[jillybean]

Thanks, I will most likely be in Auckland and the Bay of Islands. If I play with my brother I will make him play my system otherwise I'd like to try acol.

[ahydra]

 johntaylor, on 2012-February-23, 19:24, said:

unless the suit opened is rebid 1H-2C-2H= weak hand and and 5 card suit

This is fairly old fashioned IIRC. I think opener in this sequence really could have as many as 15 points, e.g. AJxx KQxxx KQ xx (this hand isn't strong enough to reverse, so has to rebid 2H). Hence responder is expected to rebid, normally 2NT (10-12) in order to prevent missing a game when opener has a slightly-better-than-minimum opener.

ahydra

[Vampyr]

 ahydra, on 2012-February-24, 04:36, said:

This is fairly old fashioned IIRC. I think opener in this sequence really could have as many as 15 points, e.g. AJxx KQxxx KQ xx (this hand isn't strong enough to reverse, so has to rebid 2H). Hence responder is expected to rebid, normally 2NT (10-12) in order to prevent missing a game when opener has a slightly-better-than-minimum opener.

Where do you play? Where I live 2♥ is not "kind of forcing". I pass in this auction all the time and my partners do the same.

[gordontd]

 ahydra, on 2012-February-23, 18:23, said:

2/1 bids are 10+ points and promise a rebid.

This concept of "promises a rebid" is most definitely not Acol, in any of its forms.

[Zelandakh]

The EBU has a system file for standard Acol. The differences from Benjaminised Acol comes in the 2 level openings, one version of which is described on this EBU Convention Card. However, there is no standard for the balanced ranges amongst Benji players so do not assume anything here. Also, do not assume that 2NT feature is in play over the weak 2M openings since Ogust is also common.

Also quite popular is "reverse Benji" in which 2♣ is the strongest bid and 2♦ shows a strong 2 bid in any suit or some balanced range. Sometimes the strong bid, whether 2♣ or 2♦, is a full game force and the other 2m opening covers the balanced range immediately below (22/23 - 23/24) in addition to the strong twos. Another variant I have played is where one of the balanced hands gets replaced by a Roman-style strong 3-suiter. You probably will not have to deal with that one though.

[ahydra]

Strange to see people commenting that a 2/1 doesn't promise a rebid. In that system file which Zelandakh linked, 2/1 bids are described as 9+ HCPs and 2NT rebid by responder is 10-12. Not sure if this is part of why people are saying this, or perhaps I was just taught that way and have stuck to it. FWIW I live and play just north of London.

I play a style where 2/1 bids are 10+ (or enough to GF if opener rebids 2NT 15-19, so that 1x-2y-2NT is always GF). And back to that system file: if you have 10+, then you should rebid 2NT or raise 2C to 3C, etc. It'd be silly to pass when partner can have 15 points (depending on how strong you play your reverses).

If you've made a light 2/1 based on shape, I guess you could pass - is that what you're getting at? e.g. you might push to 2C with xx xx Kx AJ109xxx and then pass 2H in 1H-2C-2H.

ahydra

[gordontd]

 ahydra, on 2012-February-24, 09:31, said:

Strange to see people commenting that a 2/1 doesn't promise a rebid.

It's one of the things that Std Am players find odd about Acol that auctions such as 1S-2D-3D & 1S-2H-3H are not forcing. I've only ever seen the phrase "promises a rebid" in SAYC & other Std Am documents, never in anything about Acol. Even when I've known players play a non-standard treatment of 11+ 2/1s on an Acol base, in my experience they always play it as forcing to 2NT, not "promising a rebid".

While it's true that a simple rebid of a major could have up to 15 hcp, that would be unusual. Most such hands would rebid 2NT (forcing, as you say, in the modern style), or might shade a reverse on a 4513 hand with support for partner's minor. The trouble with responder having to rebid 2NT with a 10 count is that it will often get you too high, since Acol openings can be quite light.

[squealydan]

Jilly,

If the club you happen to play at has graded evenings and if you end up in the top room, expect a fair proportion of players to be playing (variations of) Precision. It's very popular here among top players.

Typical club players will say they play Benji Acol but as you go round the room you'll discover 30% of them play 5-card majors. Another 20% will only open 5+ card spade suits. Multi-2D with 2H and 2S openings showing some 5/4 hand is fairly common among advanced players, though most do play two strong bids with 2C/2D, with no real consistency which is the stronger.

Pretty much everyone who is playing Acol will open a minor rather than a major with 4-4 in the suits, and responder also bids up the line.

And you probably won't encounter it as the appropriate hand is fairly rare, but true Benji-ites use a 2NT opening to show a weak 5/5 in the minors. It seems silly, but if you haven't discussed it with your partner, it can be surprisingly intrusive when it comes up!


Oh, late thought. As an Acol-er who's learned a lot of his 2/1 on this forum, one auction that seems quite different is this one

1C-1S, 2C-2D or 1D-1S, 2D-2H

Am I correct that in 2/1 most people would play the last bid as forcing and artificial? In Acol world it's weak and asking opener to pass or correct back to spades.

This post has been edited by squealydan: 2012-February-25, 03:10

[campboy]

 squealydan, on 2012-February-25, 03:03, said:

Oh, late thought. As an Acol-er who's learned a lot of his 2/1 on this forum, one auction that seems quite different is this one

1C-1S, 2C-2D or 1D-1S, 2D-2H

Am I correct that in 2/1 most people would play the last bid as forcing and artificial? In Acol world it's weak and asking opener to pass or correct back to spades.

I've never heard of anyone playing this as weak and I live in Acol world. Even in the 1970s it was constructive (though NF), according to Crowhurst's book. Nowadays I think natural and forcing is normal.

[gordontd]

 campboy, on 2012-February-25, 04:25, said:

I've never heard of anyone playing this as weak and I live in Acol world. Even in the 1970s it was constructive (though NF), according to Crowhurst's book. Nowadays I think natural and forcing is normal.

I agree. Clearly our Acol world differs in this respect from the Acol on the other side of the world.

[Vampyr]

 ahydra, on 2012-February-24, 09:31, said:

FWIW I live and play just north of London.

Ah, well it was established in another thread that once you get as far north as Jeremy, everything changes.

[squealydan]

 squealydan, on 2012-February-25, 03:03, said:

Oh, late thought. As an Acol-er who's learned a lot of his 2/1 on this forum, one auction that seems quite different is this one

1C-1S, 2C-2D or 1D-1S, 2D-2H

Am I correct that in 2/1 most people would play the last bid as forcing and artificial? In Acol world it's weak and asking opener to pass or correct back to spades.

 campboy, on 2012-February-25, 04:25, said:

I've never heard of anyone playing this as weak and I live in Acol world. Even in the 1970s it was constructive (though NF), according to Crowhurst's book. Nowadays I think natural and forcing is normal.

 gordontd, on 2012-February-25, 07:02, said:

I agree. Clearly our Acol world differs in this respect from the Acol on the other side of the world.

Interesting. There is the old joke that on arrival at Auckland airport on an international flight, the pilot announces :

"Welcome to New Zullund folks. Please set your watches back ten years."

Maybe in some bridge practices, it's more like 40 years.

It seems to be different in the northern hemisphere, and may even be different up in the North Island, but down where I play, responder will definitely be holding something like KJxxx - xx - QJxxx - x.

[jillybean]

Thanks all, some interesting comments here.

Here are the notes that my mother sent so far..

Weak 2 Acol System (as we play it - some variations).
12-14 N.T. 4 card majors. With N.T. and 15+ bid 4 card then jump in N.T.
Bid 4 cards up, 5 cards down.
2C - 8 playing tricks in suit or 20-22 balanced (we open 2N.T. with 5/5 in minors and 11-15 Pts. Partner always replies 2 D.then responds appropriately after declarer's clarification.
2 D - 23- natural response with 2H warning of very few points. 3H if 6+ Pts and Hearts.
Transfers over N.T. - soon tell you about that.

[Vampyr]

 jillybean, on 2012-February-25, 19:49, said:

12-14 N.T. 4 card majors. With N.T. and 15+ bid 4 card then jump in N.T.

I have little knowledge of NZ Benji, but I am almost certain you will find this to be a very unusual agreement. Normally a simple NT rebid shows 15-17 (or sometimes 15-16).

2NT after 2/1 either shows 15-19 or 17-19 if using 3NT to show 15-16.

Jump in NT after 1/1 shows 17-19 or 18-19.