[frank0]

Find this hand and discussion from a personal blog.

2/1 or sayc (should be the same in this case)
You have
♠K
♥AK87
♦KJ952
♣A98
IMP White vs. Red, partner open 1♦ at first seat

(a) What's your bid?
If I'm at the table I might already bid 1♥ without second thought, but it looks like there are some advantage of raising ♦. People advocate for raising ♦ argue that ♦ fit is almost always better than ♥ and this hand most likely belongs to slam(where the difference bet. major and minor is relatively small in IMP), and opp may enter the auction with ♠(so you want to find your fit as soon as possible).
Still, hiding 4 cards major with that quality looks weird to me.
Any opinion?

(b)Assume your LHO is maniac who can preempt with 6 little cards, if your answer in (a) is below 2♠, your LHO bid 2♠, partner pass, RHO 4♠, what's your next bid?

[jillybean]

I voted for 1♥ but with one partner I would start 2♦ (gf), for us this does not deny a 4 card major

[mike777]

I think really good players start with 1h because they have no problem backing into diamonds.

I think B/I players, me, have problems so I start with 3c art and gf in d for me

[aguahombre]

Actually there are some really good players who will bid an inverted 2m with a 4-card major; and they have methods for uncovering a major suit fit later if necessary.

I am not one of them; and you can take that any way you choose I prefer to eliminate the search for a major early on, and concentrate on NT vs the minor suit ---and the appropriate level, without cluttering things up with the possibility we belong in some 4-4 major suit fit.

[inquiry]

I would start with 1♥. If my diamonds and clubs were reversed, I would start wtih 2[cll], but that wasn't the question. The difference between bidding 1♥ with a known (for me fit) and 2♣ with an unknown club fit, is if we don't discover a heart fit, I can force and establish diamonds. If we don't discover a club fit after 2♣, I can still show hearts, the stregnth of the hand, and bid out my shape reasonably.

[CSGibson]

I'm going to start with 3♠, a splinter in support of diamonds, & then try to drive to slam opposite the right number of keycards.

[jillybean]

CSGibson, on 2012-February-18, 00:47, said:

I'm going to start with 3♠, a splinter in support of diamonds, & then try to drive to slam opposite the right number of keycards.

I use splinters for weaker hands with no slam interest. I would rather start with a gf 2♦ and leave plenty of room to determine
level/strain. We could have a slam in D,H, NT

[aguahombre]

jillybean, on 2012-February-18, 00:58, said:

We could have a slam in D,H, NT

This is definitely the type of hand where The 4-4 heart fit takes more tricks than the 5-4 or 5-3 diamond fit. Are we really sure after an inverted diamond raise we can distinguish between a stopper sequence and a search for a new suit strain?

And, if we can find our major on this hand, can we get to NT on a different one?

[MrAce]

frank0, on 2012-February-17, 21:30, said:

Find this hand and discussion from a personal blog.

2/1 or sayc (should be the same in this case)
You have
♠K
♥AK87
♦KJ952
♣A98
IMP White vs. Red, partner open 1♦ at first seat

(a) What's your bid?
If I'm at the table I might already bid 1♥ without second thought, but it looks like there are some advantage of raising ♦. People advocate for raising ♦ argue that ♦ fit is almost always better than ♥ and this hand most likely belongs to slam(where the difference bet. major and minor is relatively small in IMP), and opp may enter the auction with ♠(so you want to find your fit as soon as possible).
Still, hiding 4 cards major with that quality looks weird to me.
Any opinion?

(b)Assume your LHO is maniac who can preempt with 6 little cards, if your answer in (a) is below 2♠, your LHO bid 2♠, partner pass, RHO 4♠, what's your next bid?

I am a 1♥ bidder, but for this hand i can understand the concerns of people who argues that it is good to start raising ♦ via inv minor or via splinter or via whatever.

These concerns might be;

-Competition may make it harder for us to set ♦ as trumps and ask aces if we start 1♥

-If in your style opener is raising 1♥ with 3 cards, it maybe pain in the butt to set the ♦ back as trump because most people who raise with 3 also dedicates subsequent bids to figure how many ♥ opener raised with and that if he has a good or bad hand.

-Starting with direct ♦ raise, you kinda give less info to opps as oppose to lets say 1♦-1♥-1♠.... auction.

So overall i can not say what they argue is illogical.

[the hog]

CSGibson, on 2012-February-18, 00:47, said:

I'm going to start with 3♠, a splinter in support of diamonds, & then try to drive to slam opposite the right number of keycards.

And end up in a 5-4 D fit one off when 6 is cold in your 4-4 H fit. Excellent stuff!

[EricK]

If the bidding starts
1♦ (P) 1♥ (2♠)
P (4♠)
What does 4NT by us mean?

[CSGibson]

the hog, on 2012-February-18, 02:13, said:

And end up in a 5-4 D fit one off when 6 is cold in your 4-4 H fit. Excellent stuff!

Listen jack, would you let a potential 4-4 diamond fit talk you out of splintering for your partner's 1♥ opening? No? Then why do you think it's ridiculous that I show my 5 card support for partner's primary suit and interest in slam all with one bid?

I think your sarcasm is way overdone, and not helpful. Frankly, it always makes me think that you don't have any good bridge ideas, and that all you have to offer is negativity. But then again, this isn't therapy for that poor misfit Ron, it's a bridge discussion, so I digress.

If you show your support now, you don't have to go through some 4th suit forcing auction just to get back to diamonds, and you don't have to worry about preemption as much. You also establish your singleton spade. It will be hard to do that later in the auction with everything else you need to catch up on.

[Cyberyeti]

Put me down for the inverted raise not denying 4M. Splinter not an issue for us as shows specifically void.

[CSGibson]

jillybean, on 2012-February-18, 00:58, said:

I use splinters for weaker hands with no slam interest. I would rather start with a gf 2♦ and leave plenty of room to determine
level/strain. We could have a slam in D,H, NT

Splinters are designed as a slam bidding tool, it doesn't make sense to me that you wouldn't use them unless you don't have slam interest. Would you explain this more completely please?

[mgoetze]

jillybean, on 2012-February-18, 00:58, said:

I use splinters for weaker hands with no slam interest.

A former German internationalist taught me the following about splinters: the important thing to consider before splintering is whether you will know what to do if partner tries to sign off in game. If you will be happy to pass - good, splinter. If you will continue to explore for slam anyway - good, splinter. If you will have some doubts remaining that slam might be on but be afraid to make another move - don't splinter.

This is, of course, just an application of the the "consider your rebid" principle.

[jillybean]

CSGibson, on 2012-February-18, 03:41, said:

Splinters are designed as a slam bidding tool, it doesn't make sense to me that you wouldn't use them unless you don't have slam interest. Would you explain this more completely please?

Perhaps saying I use splinters with no slam interest is wrong. I use splinters on hands where I have no further interest in slam other than the shortage and support for partner shown by the splinter. I imagine that there would be exceptions to this, but in general I find splinters take up too much room if I have another move over the shortage.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

I've been chastised for even mentioning SPLINTERS in the B/I ... and now here CSG is advocating one with a stiff KING no less ! [ B & I players--- cover your eyes ! ] .

[TWO4BRIDGE]

1♦ ( p ) ??
........... a ) 1♥ .

1♦ (P) 1♥ (2♠)
P (4♠) ??
........... b ) 5NT = choice of small slams ( between ♦ or ♥ ) .

[aguahombre]

CSGibson, on 2012-February-18, 03:41, said:

Splinters are designed as a slam bidding tool, it doesn't make sense to me that you wouldn't use them unless you don't have slam interest. Would you explain this more completely please?

O.K., I will. Splinters are a picture for partner to use if partner can use the picture and move for slam. Splinters make partner the Captain. In this case, it is not only too strong for partner to judge anything accurately (thus you will have to do everything yourself, but it loses the hearts.

When you have a picture too wide for the frame, you don't use that frame. You use a different one.

There is only one situation where we splinter and then take over ourselves: when the splinter was merely a way of setting trumps for exclusion RKC.

[ggwhiz]

I bid 1♥ and it has nothing to do with what's best. Our inverted minors deny a major and we detest splinters and agree not to show stiff A or K as shortness over jacoby 2nt too.

Just a comfortable style for us after lots of trial and error.

BTW, I think everyone knows what to do if the red vs. white opps bounce this into 4♠. This is going to be a free run auction or close to it and we have all the tools to bid it well after 1♥.