[ahydra]

I'd bid 1H. We'll be able to bid 4D if partner doesn't raise our hearts.

ahydra

[mike777]

As others point out if pard raises our hearts it is going to take some sorting to find out if pard has 3 or 4 and to get back to diamonds if need be.

For B/I players this is tough.

OTOH if pard rebids 1nt then we can rebid 3d(XYZ) as a slam try in D.

[mgoetze]

mike777, on 2012-February-18, 14:49, said:

As others point out if pard raises our hearts it is going to take some sorting to find out if pard has 3 or 4 and to get back to diamonds if need be.

For B/I players this is tough.

I didn't see anyone pointing that out, but I would like to point out that this doesn't need to be tough. There is a very simple solution: have 1♦-1♥-2♥ promise 4 hearts, always. I understand that certain players from the USA will not believe that this is a workable solution, but I assure you that it is.

[P_Marlowe]

1H.

You can play inv. minor raise style, that still may hold a
4 card major, I dont, so I am showing my major suit.

The reason - It keeps the auction at a low level.

I worry about the oppoenents, if they enter.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[aguahombre]

mike777, on 2012-February-18, 14:49, said:

OTOH if pard rebids 1nt then we can rebid 3d(XYZ) as a slam try in D.

Or, with a decent set of follow-ups, regular NMF will suffice. I realize a lot of players enjoy their alphabetical toys, or 2-way checkbacks; those folks won't agree that everything can fit nicely into the 2C NMF scheme.

And, main reason they won't agree is because they might have rebid 1NT instead of 1S with 4 of them --- and must include showing 4 spades in their list of NMF continuations.

This post has been edited by aguahombre: 2012-February-18, 16:53

[the hog]

CSGibson, on 2012-February-18, 03:31, said:

Listen jack, would you let a potential 4-4 diamond fit talk you out of splintering for your partner's 1♥ opening? No? Then why do you think it's ridiculous that I show my 5 card support for partner's primary suit and interest in slam all with one bid?

I think your sarcasm is way overdone, and not helpful. Frankly, it always makes me think that you don't have any good bridge ideas, and that all you have to offer is negativity. But then again, this isn't therapy for that poor misfit Ron, it's a bridge discussion, so I digress.

If you show your support now, you don't have to go through some 4th suit forcing auction just to get back to diamonds, and you don't have to worry about preemption as much. You also establish your singleton spade. It will be hard to do that later in the auction with everything else you need to catch up on.

Here is a good bridge idea for you. A hand with a 4-4 fit and a 5-4 fit generally plays one trick at least better in the 4-4 fit. Therefore and for other reasons, I think it is absurd to splinter on this hand. After a splinter you will never get to play in Hearts. The other problem with a splinter is that you seem to play a splinter as an absurdly wide range. Ok Pd signs off in 3NT opposite your splinter - your move, as pd has no idea how strong you re except that you can force to game. Even more - pd decides to bid 3NT, showing a reasonable S stopper(s). You have the K of S. Wow, pd may well get a surprise when he sees this card. Also it is not difficult to construct hands where 3NT is by far the best contract opposite the S King, and poor otherwise. This is really enlightened bidding. I can imagine a beginner or low intermediate who has just discovered splinters producing that bid on this hand, but am surprised to see a regular forum member suggesting such a flawed bid as a serious alternative. If you want to fiddle with a splinter in your partnerships, go right ahead, but don't bring this up in a discussion where the op clearly wants some sensible advice. Sure if you play inverted raises can have a 4 card Major, then that is a good start, otherwise 1H is obvious.

Perhaps it should not surprise me that you would use a splinter, because based on this comment, "& then try to drive to slam opposite the right number of keycards." you appear to have no idea whatsoever what as to what a splinter is supposed to be. Why splinter on this hand if you are going to bid a slam anyway? A splinter says that your partner now makes the decision. "Partner I have enough to force to game, I have support for you and I have a singleton in this suit. Do you like that?" Not "Stuff you partner, I have a singleton in S and I am bidding slam if you have the right number of kc and I don't give a fig about the rest of your hand".

In my partnerships if pd does not raise H, a 4D bid shows D support. I realise that you might play this as a splinter, but I don't so do not need your convoluted 4th suit forcing to show d support - (Free lesson for you!).

[S2000magic]

I'd bid 1♥. If partner has four good (or even decent) hearts, it's likely that game or slam in the 4-4 fit will be better than game or slam in a 5-3 or 5-4 fit.

[CSGibson]

the hog, on 2012-February-18, 18:01, said:

Here is a good bridge idea for you. A hand with a 4-4 fit and a 5-4 fit generally plays one trick at least better in the 4-4 fit. Therefore and for other reasons, I think it is absurd to splinter on this hand. After a splinter you will never get to play in Hearts. The other problem with a splinter is that you seem to play a splinter as an absurdly wide range. Ok Pd signs off in 3NT opposite your splinter - your move, as pd has no idea how strong you re except that you can force to game. Even more - pd decides to bid 3NT, showing a reasonable S stopper(s). You have the K of S. Wow, pd may well get a surprise when he sees this card. Also it is not difficult to construct hands where 3NT is by far the best contract opposite the S King, and poor otherwise. This is really enlightened bidding. I can imagine a beginner or low intermediate who has just discovered splinters producing that bid on this hand, but am surprised to see a regular forum member suggesting such a flawed bid as a serious alternative. If you want to fiddle with a splinter in your partnerships, go right ahead, but don't bring this up in a discussion where the op clearly wants some sensible advice. Sure if you play inverted raises can have a 4 card Major, then that is a good start, otherwise 1H is obvious.

Perhaps it should not surprise me that you would use a splinter, because based on this comment, "& then try to drive to slam opposite the right number of keycards." you appear to have no idea whatsoever what as to what a splinter is supposed to be. Why splinter on this hand if you are going to bid a slam anyway? A splinter says that your partner now makes the decision. "Partner I have enough to force to game, I have support for you and I have a singleton in this suit. Do you like that?" Not "Stuff you partner, I have a singleton in S and I am bidding slam if you have the right number of kc and I don't give a fig about the rest of your hand".

In my partnerships if pd does not raise H, a 4D bid shows D support. I realise that you might play this as a splinter, but I don't so do not need your convoluted 4th suit forcing to show d support - (Free lesson for you!).

Thanks Ron, that was actually a very helpful bridge-related reply - and I apologize for my snarky response earlier.

I recognize that a 4-4 fit may play better - that's always been the case. BUT - I don't let the fact that a 4-4 spade fit may play better stop me from splintering on AQxx KJxx x Kxxx if partner opened 1♥, and I've never heard anyone seriously suggest that. This seems to be only a slightly different situation.

Also, I agree that splintering is typically a limit hand, but splintering can also encompass hands that have a follow-up plan over a sign off, and want to give partner an idea about what to do for grand slam. That is the hand I think I have. A singleton king is a negative feature, and never comfortable to splinter with, but I think making a bid that establishes a fit, a game force, and starts to describe our shape is a good idea before opponents, who have at least 9 spades between them, get involved in the auction.

[the hog]

I also apologise. By the way, the opps may well only have 8 spades between them. Surely your partner can have 4.

[CSGibson]

the hog, on 2012-February-19, 01:47, said:

I also apologise. By the way, the opps may well only have 8 spades between them. Surely your partner can have 4.

Damn those who can use addition effectively.

[jillybean]

lol