[bd71]

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Agreements are that 3rd seat openers can be very light.

What's your call?

[jdeegan]

Pass. In tempo I hope. Pard should not be light at these colors.

[wank]

3♠ happily enough. hand should play pretty well.

[HighLow21]

This is a pretty good hand. 8 HCP but 3 tens, trump support, a doubleton heart and a 4-card weak diamond side suit. Nice. Partner's going to like our 3 non-♦ tens quite a bit.

If your partner has a decent hand he should hopefully know to reopen with a double or bid 3♥ (or rebid 3♠) next, playing you for about 6-10 points with no clear action over 3♦. (With more than that, you would bid at the 4 level over his reopening double.) He, like you, knows your side almost certainly has half the deck or more. I would pass and trust that if 3♦ is passed out, you didn't miss a making 3♠. Maybe he has something like AQ9xx♠ Jxx♥ xx♦ Axx♣. But I think this is pretty unlikely.

Why? Partner should have 2 diamonds at most and likely only 1; if he cannot reopen, you probably missed nothing, and he almost certainly opened on a bad 11 or 12 and no longer likes the hand.

Jdeegan makes a good point: partner should not be light on these colors, and the auction confirms this. LHO and RHO have sub-openers, so partner will have 12+ points at least 90% of the time in my estimation, and may have a 20-count.

To me that all makes this pass maximum or even slightly super-max. In other words, pass only with a partner you trust to reopen whenever even remotely reasonable.

By the way... if partner reopens with a double, I'm as tempted to go 4♠ as 3♠ in response.

If you are NOT 100% sure your partner would reopen whenever possible, I would bid 3♠. Your red suit distributions will line up well for crossruffing (you rate to have some heats to ruff in partner's hand, and both red suits will be ruff-right), and you have nothing wasted in diamonds. You would adore another small trump, but sometimes life isn't like that. Partner will probably bid game most of the time there is a play for it.

If you respond 3♠, or partner doubles and you respond 3♠, and then partner goes game over your 3♠ bid, expect to make it nearly always.

[MrAce]

HighLow21, on 2012-February-11, 01:39, said:

This is a pretty good hand. 8 HCP but 3 tens, trump support, a doubleton heart and a 4-card weak diamond side suit. Nice. Partner's going to like our 3 non-♦ tens quite a bit.

If your partner has a decent hand he should hopefully know to reopen with a double or bid 3♥ (or rebid 3♠) next, playing you for about 6-10 points with no clear action over 3♦. (With more than that, you would bid at the 4 level over his reopening double.) He, like you, knows your side almost certainly has half the deck or more. I would pass and trust that if 3♦ is passed out, you didn't miss a making 3♠. Maybe he has something like AQ9xx♠ Jxx♥ xx♦ Axx♣. But I think this is pretty unlikely.

Why? Partner should have 2 diamonds at most and likely only 1; if he cannot reopen, you probably missed nothing, and he almost certainly opened on a bad 11 or 12 and no longer likes the hand.

Jdeegan makes a good point: partner should not be light on these colors, and the auction confirms this. LHO and RHO have sub-openers, so partner will have 12+ points at least 90% of the time in my estimation, and may have a 20-count.

To me that all makes this pass maximum or even slightly super-max. In other words, pass only with a partner you trust to reopen whenever even remotely reasonable.

By the way... if partner reopens with a double, I'm as tempted to go 4♠ as 3♠ in response.

If you are NOT 100% sure your partner would reopen whenever possible, I would bid 3♠. Your red suit distributions will line up well for crossruffing (you rate to have some heats to ruff in partner's hand, and both red suits will be ruff-right), and you have nothing wasted in diamonds. You would adore another small trump, but sometimes life isn't like that. Partner will probably bid game most of the time there is a play for it.

If you respond 3♠, or partner doubles and you respond 3♠, and then partner goes game over your 3♠ bid, expect to make it nearly always.

Thats why i would bid 3♠ now because it will be flipping coin when pd doubles and i have to choose what to bid. Pass now and 4 later can be too much, pass now and 3 later is like...as if i am bidding because i was forced to. I would just bid now, i dont have a great hand but i dont have a bad hand either, no wasted ♦ values vs pd's shortness seems good. My only concern is having only 3 card support and balanced hand but hey life is always tuff after preempts, who knows perhaps pass is the winner.

[whereagles]

Seems like an esy 3S to me. Sure, pard can be weak. But he's not ALWAYS weak

[wyman]

whereagles, on 2012-February-11, 07:20, said:

Seems like an esy 3S to me. Sure, pard can be weak. But he's not ALWAYS weak

You've never played with me, it seems

[pooltuna]

hooo another sales opportunity for my Meckwell back brace/corset for those hard but necessary potential game bids...3♠...STIFFEN YOU SPINE

[bigbenvic]

I'm bidding 3♠ now, I don't like passing and bidding 3, nor bidding 4 over partners reopening X or bid. That punishes him for doing it on hands with the right shapes but minimum points.

Agree R/W 3rd seats shouldn't be that weak, 10 count good with a good suit about the worst he should have.

[Cthulhu D]

on the bidding he should have a real opener, E has at most, what, a 11 count? You have 8 and the pre-empter probably doesn't have an amazing hand for his NV vs V pre-empt though he probably does have a decent diamond suit so call it 8 points. That leaves partner with a 16 count, so it's unlikely he's sub minimum though a 12-14 count is definitely plausible.

[Statto]

3♠, just competing.

[FrancesHinden]

I sometimes think people overcomplicate things. You have a perfectly decent hand with nothing wasted in diamonds and three good trumps. It looks a normal, although minimum, 3S bid.

[HighLow21]

FrancesHinden, on 2012-February-12, 16:12, said:

I sometimes think people overcomplicate things. You have a perfectly decent hand with nothing wasted in diamonds and three good trumps. It looks a normal, although minimum, 3S bid.

Ya I thought about this one some more and I probably would compete with 3♠ too. My shape is decent, and if I had a 4th trump I'd bid a limit 3♠ over no competition. My only thought was that a 3♠ call now might turn partner off to game if he's got a decent minimum with a little shape, if he takes 3♠ as strictly competitive with no game interest. 4♠ might still be the right spot. I think I'll backtrack and say 3♠ trusting partner to count on a hand like this when he's worth a stab at game.

[JLOGIC]

This is a down the middle 3S bid.