[thebiker]

I am interested in how players in different countries play responses to one no trump overcalls
ie (1X) 1NT (P) ??

I play in England, and most of my friends play 2C Stayman, 2D and 2H Red suit transfers and little else.
Because the majority of English players are still playing 4 card (and occasionally 3 card) majors this seems to work reasonably well, we find our major suit fits, and now and then manage to manage to make the openers major our own.
Doubtless in a 5 card major environment, there are other methods??

Are there two methods in use:
One for (1Mi) 1NT (P) ? and another for (1Ma) 1NT (P) ?

thanks in advance for your replies

regards

Brian Keable
alias "the biker"

[Vampyr]

We play weak takeouts. We want the chance to play in two of a minor when advancer is weak.

[Zelandakh]

There are 2 basic standards. The first is system on. You have to define a transfer into the opponents' suit as something; it does not have to be natural. The second method is natural with a cue bid of the opponents' suit as Stayman.

[Vampyr]

Zelandakh, on 2012-February-07, 05:40, said:

There are 2 basic standards. The first is system on. You have to define a transfer into the opponents' suit as something; it does not have to be natural. The second method is natural with a cue bid of the opponents' suit as Stayman.

You can also play transfers into 3 suits, with a transfer into opponents' suit as Stayman.

If third hand chips in, I like to play Lebensohl.

[phil_20686]

There are more common methods:

Transfers that go past the overcalled suit this lets partner break below 2M if he wants to when the overcalled suit is hearts.

so (1H) 1N P

2c = d
2d=s
2h=stayman
2s=clubs

Then there is transfers with transfer into their suit as stayman.

Some people play differently after 1m 1N and 1M 1N, and this is clearly a little better, but its all memory work for minimal gain. Play something simple.

[andy_h]

Whatever methods you have, given that 1NT overcall is usually 15+ to 18 and that you know where the majority of the high cards are, just make sure that you are inviting on hands with 7 counts (sometimes even GF-ing if it's a good one).

[ArtK78]

My preferred method is 2♣ nonforcing Stayman (bid on all hands with invitational values), cue bid forcing Stayman (bid on all hands with game forcing values that cannot just bid game or slam), and 2 of a suit is to play. If the opening bid was 1♣, then 2♣ is nonforcing Stayman and 2♦ is forcing Stayman.

I find that this gives responder a great deal of flexibility. Transfers are not a high-priority item in this situation, as almost all of the strength held by the opponents is in one hand, and if the weaker hand declares, the opening bidder will be on lead.

[aguahombre]

ArtK78, on 2012-February-07, 09:33, said:

I find that this gives responder a great deal of flexibility. Transfers are not a high-priority item in this situation, as almost all of the strength held by the opponents is in one hand, and if the weaker hand declares, the opening bidder will be on lead.

Right-siding is not the only reason for using transfers. Transfers also give the one who transfers an opportunity to bid again or not to bid again. This allows advancer to consult the NT overcaller about level and strain, rather than merely deciding on his own with certain holdings.

[ArtK78]

aguahombre, on 2012-February-07, 10:57, said:

Right-siding is not the only reason for using transfers. Transfers also give the one who transfers an opportunity to bid again or not to bid again. This allows advancer to consult the NT overcaller about level and strain, rather than merely deciding on his own with certain holdings.

That is exactly what nonforcing and forcing Stayman accomplish, only they do so at lower levels. The 1NT bidder knows immediately the potential of the two hands, and bidding is natural over both.

In my experience, NF and Forcing Stayman works better than transfers. Transfers main advantage is making the strong hand declarer. As I stated above, that is not an issue in this situation.

I use NF and Forcing Stayman over a 10-12 1NT opening. It works very well.

[awm]

ArtK78, on 2012-February-08, 09:41, said:

I use NF and Forcing Stayman over a 10-12 1NT opening. It works very well.

How do you invite with five hearts?

How do you show both suits if you have a 5/5 GF hand?

Can you show shortness on a three-suited pattern?

Can you both sign off and invite in a minor?

I understand that there is some advantage to having 2M as an immediate sign-off (especially when playing weak notrump) because it allows fewer opportunities for the opponents to enter the auction. But playing this way greatly reduces your number of sequences available! It's nowhere near as effective for invitational or game-going sequences as using transfers.

[Vampyr]

ArtK78, on 2012-February-08, 09:41, said:

Transfers main advantage is making the strong hand declarer.

No.

[Phil]

After (1x) - 1N, roughly 2/3 to 3/4 of the deck is accounted for. IMO, there is a big benefit to putting the strong hand on opening lead around to our weaker hand. I also think that there is a large benefit to stopping in 2M when responder is invitational.

With that in mind, what about a sort of Keri structure?:

1) 2♣ - relay to 2♦, then

- 2♥ = inv 4 hearts (and maybe spades)
- 2♠ = inv 4 spades

2) 2♦ is a transfer to hearts as a signoff. If responder bids 2♠/3♣, that is also signoff. 2♦ - 2♥ - 2N can be 5-5 both minors, weak. 3M can be invitational with 6.

3) 2♥ and 2♠ are invitational with 5

4) 2N = invite

3 level bids work the same way, except responder's calls are GF, although you could certainly expand the 2♣ - 2♦ structure.

[ArtK78]

awm, on 2012-February-08, 09:52, said:

How do you invite with five hearts?

How do you show both suits if you have a 5/5 GF hand?

Can you show shortness on a three-suited pattern?

Can you both sign off and invite in a minor?

I understand that there is some advantage to having 2M as an immediate sign-off (especially when playing weak notrump) because it allows fewer opportunities for the opponents to enter the auction. But playing this way greatly reduces your number of sequences available! It's nowhere near as effective for invitational or game-going sequences as using transfers.

1. I invite with 5 hearts by bidding 2♣ (NF Stayman) followed by bidding hearts.

2. I show a forcing to game 5/5 in the majors by bidding Forcing Stayman (2♦) followed by bidding spades and then hearts (and hearts again, if needed). Of course, my partner will have shown his distribution in response to my 2♦ call, so I will know if there is a fit. If partner has 2-2-4-5 distribution he bids 3♥ over 2♦ and with 2-2-5-4 distribution he bids 3♠ over 2♦. So I will have a reasonable idea of what to do.

3. Yes. 2NT is a transfer to 3♣, and shows one of these hands: (1) long clubs, weak; (2) long diamonds, weak; (3) 5-5 majors, invitational; or (4) 3-1-5-4 game forcing (3-1 either way, 5-4 either way). Over opener's 3♣ puppet, responder (1) passes; (2) bids 3♦ to play; (3) bids 3♥; or (4) bids 3♠ with short spades and 3NT with short hearts. With 4-4-4-1 or 5-4-4-0 patterns and game forcing values, responder just bids 2♦ game forcing Stayman and opener shows his pattern. Natural bidding follows once opener's pattern is known.

4. Yes. I have already shown how responder signs off in 3 of a minor. And, while opener can show a 5 card minor after responder bids 2♣ nonforcing Stayman, I don't see why he would do so. It is possible that after 1NT-2♣-2♦-2NT, opener might bid a 5 card minor to play. But if responder shows a 5 card major over 2♦, that is likely to be the final contract.

We do not typically open a 10-12 1NT with a 6 card minor, and it is not provided for in the response structure.

As for inviting in a minor, responder can bid a direct 3♣ or 3♦ which is defined as natural and "slightly invitational." With a "real" invitation, responder can bid 2♣ nonforcing Stayman followed by 3 of a minor (natural).

The complete structure is available at http://www.bridgebas...e/page__st__20.

[mycroft]

Klinger, in fact, recommends Keri (should you be playing it) over NT o/c. We're trying it, but haven't had a NT o/c yet :-)

Edit: having said that what's most common in my neighbourhood is either "systems on" (because it's easy) or "cuebid stayman" (because they like being able to get out in 2m).

[awm]

ArtK78, on 2012-February-08, 12:31, said:

1. I invite with 5 hearts by bidding 2♣ (NF Stayman) followed by bidding hearts.

Suppose the auction starts 1NT-2♣-2♠. You will not win many boards by playing 3♥ in your 5-2 fit. In contrast, playing transfers you can play 2NT if you don't have a heart fit. Some methods even let you get to 3m if responder is 5/5 invitational and you don't have a heart fit.

ArtK78, on 2012-February-08, 12:31, said:

2. I show a forcing to game 5/5 in the majors by bidding Forcing Stayman (2♦) followed by bidding spades and then hearts (and hearts again, if needed). Of course, my partner will have shown his distribution in response to my 2♦ call, so I will know if there is a fit. If partner has 2-2-4-5 distribution he bids 3♥ over 2♦ and with 2-2-5-4 distribution he bids 3♠ over 2♦. So I will have a reasonable idea of what to do.

What if you have slam interest? You start 2♦ and partner bids 2NT. Now you could easily have ...3♠-3NT and presumably 4♥ would be NF. Tough to have a sensible slam auction here. In contrast playing transfers you get to agree your suit at the three-level.

I also never said you had majors. Suppose you have 5♥/5♦. You start 1NT-2♦ and partner bids 2♠ or 2NT. Now you bid 3♥ and partner bids 3NT. You could easily be better in five or six diamonds but you now have to guess whether to remove what could be the best contract...

ArtK78, on 2012-February-08, 12:31, said:

3. Yes. 2NT is a transfer to 3♣, and shows one of these hands: (1) long clubs, weak; (2) long diamonds, weak; (3) 5-5 majors, invitational; or (4) 3-1-5-4 game forcing (3-1 either way, 5-4 either way). Over opener's 3♣ puppet, responder (1) passes; (2) bids 3♦ to play; (3) bids 3♥; or (4) bids 3♠ with short spades and 3NT with short hearts. With 4-4-4-1 or 5-4-4-0 patterns and game forcing values, responder just bids 2♦ game forcing Stayman and opener shows his pattern. Natural bidding follows once opener's pattern is known.

This does mean you have to bid NF stayman on flat invites where you don't really care about partner's major holding, but a lot of other people do have that problem.

However, this is not the right way to bid 4441 patterns. Suppose you are 4144 and you discover that partner is 2434. Are you playing 3NT? Of course, if partner's hearts are four little you could be on for 6♣ with 3NT failing. But then again, if partner's hearts are something like KQxx you really need to play 3NT. This type of hand is easy if you let the hand with the singleton describe shape.

[MrAce]

Awm for president !!