[Bbradley62]

 gordontd, on 2012-February-12, 05:39, said:

I found it hard to imagine anyone arranging a second game, let alone developing a partnership, under these circumstances. Is there more to it than I have seen?

When I played in the MBC, I would mark profiles with a particular color category designation when I played with/against someone who was "worth" playing with/against again. Then, I'd look for that color when looking for a table to join. This improved my chances of having better games, but I never got as far as developing an actual partnership.

There are "clubs" (BBO Hornets, BBO Fans, etc) that have tournaments where at least the universe is smaller, and players are generally more friendly.

[ArtK78]

 barmar, on 2012-February-12, 00:15, said:

I occasionally play in the Express Free Automated Fun tourneys. I guess people think "It's free, who cares?" and do some of the craziest things. E.g.

---

He then proceeded to play the hand practically double dummy, to take all 13 tricks (dropping the ♠Qx offside instead of taking the finesse). But if he actually had a wire, why didn't he bid the slam? Maybe they didn't want to make it too obvious that they were cheating?

Which side was the Qx of spades on? I can't tell which way is offside.

[Antrax]

gordontd, it varies. Occasionally someone will be polite and after a couple of hands decide you're decent, and then they might ask you about a hand, and typically at the end of the discussion they ask if it's okay to friend you. Most people consider it rude to comment about a hand if they weren't asked about it.

[Bbradley62]

 barmar, on 2012-February-12, 00:15, said:

I occasionally play in the Express Free Automated Fun tourneys. I guess people think "It's free, who cares?" and do some of the craziest things.

As has been discussed in another thread, I think people also do more strange things in the EFAF tourneys because chat is disabled, so they cannot be called out for doing it.

[Bbradley62]

 barmar, on 2012-February-12, 00:15, said:

He then proceeded to play the hand practically double dummy, to take all 13 tricks (dropping the ♠Qx offside instead of taking the finesse). But if he actually had a wire, why didn't he bid the slam? Maybe they didn't want to make it too obvious that they were cheating?

This hand does nicely demonstrate the randomness of EFAF, but as far as (presumably joking) allegations of having a wire... Remember that this is an individual event, so offline N/S collaboration is extremely unlikely... It was North who so cleverly played this hand. (Note that 7 of 8 Norths who played game in ♥ took all 13 tricks.) It was also North who tried to play in 1N, which would not have been a very good score.

[jillybean]

 jdeegan, on 2012-February-11, 22:53, said:

4. If a player doesn't self-rate him/herself expert, they are usually not very good.

LOL

[jdeegan]

 gordontd, on 2012-February-12, 05:39, said:

Is there more to it than I have seen?

Welcome to BBO. A few suggestions:

1. Don't play in the main bridge club except with friends.

2. Do play the $1 individual and pair tournaments. Robot tournaments can be decent practice, but you won't meet anybody.

3. The best place to meet potential partners is the ACBL Speedball game. Their partnership desk is usually extensive. Don't overlook those who want you to pay their way. 1 USD per hour is cheap help (even some of these 'pro' players are truly awful). Don't be concerned about getting turned down. Some players at the partnership desk are just waiting for a regular partner to show up.

4. Once you make a connection with someone, mark them as a friend and make notes in their profile.

5. If you see me online ask me to play. I will do so if possible.

[Fluffy]

I play a lot with "random" partners, just that those random partners usually have a star, at least they don't suck so much. From time to time they are good.

One factor to differentiate better players from absurd ones is that they have a real name in their profile. Fewer people with a last name in the profile overrate them from beginner to expert.

[barmar]

 Bbradley62, on 2012-February-12, 09:41, said:

This hand does nicely demonstrate the randomness of EFAF, but as far as (presumably joking) allegations of having a wire... Remember that this is an individual event, so offline N/S collaboration is extremely unlikely... It was North who so cleverly played this hand. (Note that 7 of 8 Norths who played game in ♥ took all 13 tricks.) It was also North who tried to play in 1N, which would not have been a very good score.

Yeah, cheating in EFAF does seem unlikely. The only thing I can imagine is co-conspirators entering it, planning on colluding if they end up partnered. And if they're at different tables, they can tell each other what their seat and hands are, which would help them both.

The thing about that hand is that the auction makes very little sense -- North's 1NT only makes sense if he knows partner is going to take it out. It's not even a typical hand-hog auction -- if North wanted to play, why not rebid his hearts?

[onoway]

Feels a bit funny posting this as I am involved with helping to run it but but..(full disclosure as they say )The private BBO Intermediate and Advanced Club has a friendly membership. We have quite a number of advanced and some expert members who drop by from time to time and are also sometimes to be found playing in the team matches, but admittedly most of the membership are intermediates with ambitions. So if you are up for that it is a nice club and everyone works hard to keep it that way.

The only thing is that although we have a big membership, aside from a core group we don't have many who play in the club so it can be difficult at times to find a game. We have a tourney once a week at present (Sunday evening) and are just finishing up teams series, another set to start on Saturday March3 at 8 pm NY time OR Sunday March4 10:30 am NY time. We usually have some strong players in the teams,especially in the Sunday series, and would welcome some new strong teams to give them some challenge.

We would like to see more people playing in the club as well of course!

[Cthulhu D]

Meeting people seems very hard. I'm not particularly great (and I passed some guy's blantant reverse in EFAF but it does seem hard to play except with random partners.

Seriously, why isn't there a lobby or something?

[Chas_P]

 jdeegan, on 2012-February-11, 22:53, said:

4. Some truly awful players do self-rate themselves expert.

True story.

nic deleted (Private): Which colour is which?
→nic deleted: clubs and spades are black. diamonds and hearts are red.
nic deleted (Private): thanks

This guy has a total of 6 logins and rates himself as expert. QED. Sometimes you just gotta laugh and keep on going.

[mgoetze]

 onoway, on 2012-February-12, 18:26, said:

[...] The private BBO Intermediate and Advanced Club [...]

The only thing is that

you will have to delete dozens of messages everytime you log on to BBO.

[onoway]

 mgoetze, on 2012-February-13, 05:12, said:

you will have to delete dozens of messages everytime you log on to BBO.

Well most of the BBO mail messages are really as a result of the members not reading the news items and other information on the website. If we get a bunch of people asking the same question it's easier to message everyone than dealing with 1700 or so people individually.

Occassionally there is a misclick and something intended only for the members online at the time actually goes to the mail.

That said, we do send the results of the team matches to everyone. It seems a good thing to give some recognition to the winning teams which support the club by playing in the team match series.

I think "dozens" is something of an exaggeration though .

[barmar]

 Cthulhu D, on 2012-February-12, 18:33, said:

Seriously, why isn't there a lobby or something?

See the thread: http://www.bridgebas...-very-annoying/

[neilkaz]

 gordontd, on 2012-February-12, 05:39, said:

Having played for years on OKB until I decided not to renew my membership about six months ago, I tried doing this yesterday. The first thing that struck me is that that no-one talks. They don't discuss system, they don't say thankyou, they don't even insult their partners when they walk out in the middle of a hand - which they do so often that you need to keep looking to see if you are still playing with the same person who started the hand as your partner.

I found it hard to imagine anyone arranging a second game, let alone developing a partnership, under these circumstances. Is there more to it than I have seen?

I came here from OKB about 7 years ago or so, and IMHO, more random players on OKB would at least minimally discuss system. I too am frustrated when playing with randoms when I can't even get a reply from an obviously English speaking pard who just sat who is listed as Adv and no profile, when I say "SAYC, Std carding, add almost anything you want".

However, gradually you meet players who play your systems (ie 2/1 and gadgets for me) and who can play and defend and bid and make them friends for later play.

However, if you're host, lock the table, specify adv/exp and with profile and don't let no profiles sit.

When Mr Random can't play...leave...ie from last month Hand 1) One can only wonder what PD can't raise my 2♦ overcall to 3 with 11 pts and 4 cards and a hand some people open. Hand 2) PD passes my 1♠ overcall in comp and then later balances 2♠ and then balances 3♠ with 2 trumps and most of his 8 HCP in their suit. This gets X'd and LHO has 5 of my ♠. Hand 3)....guess what I was gone after hand 2. Hand 1) with Ms. Random.. she makes an aggressive slam try after I tried to s/off and then turned 11 ice cold tricks into 9 and I left. Now onto Mr. AlsoRandom.. he plays SAYC and knows it, knows what an obvious suit preference is when returning a suit for me to ruff..etc..we win 30 IMPs in 10 hands and he becomes a new friend.

[FrancesHinden]

 gordontd, on 2012-February-12, 05:39, said:

Having played for years on OKB until I decided not to renew my membership about six months ago, I tried doing this yesterday. The first thing that struck me is that that no-one talks. They don't discuss system, they don't say thankyou, they don't even insult their partners when they walk out in the middle of a hand - which they do so often that you need to keep looking to see if you are still playing with the same person who started the hand as your partner.

I found it hard to imagine anyone arranging a second game, let alone developing a partnership, under these circumstances. Is there more to it than I have seen?

If you seriously wanted to get some sensible games on BBO, I would suggest :

- The problem is that you don't know who anyone actually is on BBO, unless they are a forum poster or use their real name, and lots of people you already know don't do either. So
- find out the BBO nicknames of a number of English players you know, who know you - even if not close friends, people who you know are sensible players, and who also know you can more or less play the game. I can give you a few names, or point you at other people who will give you other names, if you PM me.
- You can make these people your friends (even when they are not online). When you log on, ask one or more of them for a game.
- There used to be a reasonable group of mainly UK-based, mainly current or recent juniors (in mind if not in body) who played a lot of fairly short evening team games. These may well still go on, I'm not sure. (PaulG used to play or watch these quite a lot)
- Play teams matches. These are slightly closer to real bridge than MBC or matchpoint tournaments.

This feels backwards, because you have joined a big international bridge-playing community, and you are playing bridge with people you see at tournaments in England all the time. But as you play more, you find more people to add to your 'friends' list, or friends-of-friends-of-friends list. Fluffy has an advantage over you, because he's a 'star'.That means people who don't know him, who are decent players, are likely to give him a game. As a random logger-on with a name no-one outside the forums and this country would recognise, why should anyone think you are better than the average over-rated expert? That's why I think the best way is start with people who know to give you the time of day.

Alternatively, my real life bridge partner wastes spends hours on BBO playing moneybridge in its various incarnations. No partnership problems there, but it's a very different game from 'normal' bridge so might cost a bit until you get the hang of it.

{note to readers:while I know how good gordontd is as a player, I play on BBO extremely rarely (about once a year at most), and then only in pre-arranged games. But I think similar advice should be true for anyone who isn't a beginner...}

[Bbradley62]

 FrancesHinden, on 2012-February-13, 14:59, said:

But I think similar advice should be true for anyone who isn't a beginner is active in local f2f clubs/tournaments...

There are many BBOers who are clearly not beginners but who do not have such a network to call on.

[phil_20686]

 FrancesHinden, on 2012-February-13, 14:59, said:

If you seriously wanted to get some sensible games on BBO, I would suggest :

- The problem is that you don't know who anyone actually is on BBO, unless they are a forum poster or use their real name, and lots of people you already know don't do either. So
- find out the BBO nicknames of a number of English players you know, who know you - even if not close friends, people who you know are sensible players, and who also know you can more or less play the game. I can give you a few names, or point you at other people who will give you other names, if you PM me.
- You can make these people your friends (even when they are not online). When you log on, ask one or more of them for a game.
- There used to be a reasonable group of mainly UK-based, mainly current or recent juniors (in mind if not in body) who played a lot of fairly short evening team games. These may well still go on, I'm not sure. (PaulG used to play or watch these quite a lot)
- Play teams matches. These are slightly closer to real bridge than MBC or matchpoint tournaments.

This feels backwards, because you have joined a big international bridge-playing community, and you are playing bridge with people you see at tournaments in England all the time. But as you play more, you find more people to add to your 'friends' list, or friends-of-friends-of-friends list. Fluffy has an advantage over you, because he's a 'star'.That means people who don't know him, who are decent players, are likely to give him a game. As a random logger-on with a name no-one outside the forums and this country would recognise, why should anyone think you are better than the average over-rated expert? That's why I think the best way is start with people who know to give you the time of day.

Alternatively, my real life bridge partner wastes spends hours on BBO playing moneybridge in its various incarnations. No partnership problems there, but it's a very different game from 'normal' bridge so might cost a bit until you get the hang of it.

{note to readers:while I know how good gordontd is as a player, I play on BBO extremely rarely (about once a year at most), and then only in pre-arranged games. But I think similar advice should be true for anyone who isn't a beginner...}

I never had much problem. When I started BBO I would just play on random tables and when I found someone semi decent I would friend them. You dont need to tell them you are doing this, its just a convenient way to find tables that are decent. When you log on look down your friend list and look for tables with spaces. When you find one, sit in it. After they have played against you a few times they will probably friend you back and do much the same thing, sitting at your tables. Most tables have a high enough turnover that you can rapidly get a game with somoene semi decent. Also, good players tend to hang out together. As I got better I pruned my friends list from the people I no longer really wanted to play with. I also friend pretty much anyone I see who is famous-ish, so that I can find their tables to kibitz. Friending BBO commentators from lesser competitions is a good way to find expert games. Most of them are not WC players and some of them are often around at tables with spaces.

Friending is not a commitment. Use it a lot just to keep track of random people you would be prepared t play with/against again.

[HighLow21]

 gordontd, on 2012-February-12, 05:39, said:

Having played for years on OKB until I decided not to renew my membership about six months ago, I tried doing this yesterday. The first thing that struck me is that that no-one talks. They don't discuss system, they don't say thankyou, they don't even insult their partners when they walk out in the middle of a hand - which they do so often that you need to keep looking to see if you are still playing with the same person who started the hand as your partner.

I found it hard to imagine anyone arranging a second game, let alone developing a partnership, under these circumstances. Is there more to it than I have seen?

Gordon,

Finally a post I am qualified to answer!

You are right. Most do not talk. This is in general a bad sign; as bad a sign, or worse, than a person who self-rates as Beginner.

To me the most important thing a new person can do across from me is have some basic level of communication, given that we obviously have never played together and have some basic things to sort out (you are playing transfers, right? Your jump-shift in competition is weak? Your jump raises are invitational?) The other great barometer is: defend one hand with them. If they single signal at all, or make one switch that makes sense or one continuation that makes sense; avoid setting up a truckload of winners in dummy by trick 2; and discard reasonably, the person has some potential. ESPECIALLY if they are willing to answer the basic question or two that will come up on the first couple of hands, and also seem to have a reasonable demeanor.

At that point, I don't even care whether they speak much English. Heck, I'll even employ Google translate in a side window if I need to. I know I've got a competent partner and that we'll do fine.

Note that the defend-one-hand test is a better barometer for me than watching them declare one hand. Some people fold under tricky contracts as declarer, but still can do decently well as your partner if they can give you the basic scraps you need to defend a hand decently well. Besides, you can always walk out for a smoke when they're declaring if need be, or hog the bidding so that you declare more. I certainly do both. ;-)