[Quartic]

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We were playing Acol (4 card majors, weak NT) in a teams match. Could we have avoided 6♠, and should we want to?

[quiddity]

What is 4♠ in acol? If preemptive, 4NT by west seems overly optimistic.

[Quartic]

quiddity, on 2012-January-29, 14:54, said:

What is 4♠ in acol?

We play it as pre-emptive, though checking my card just now I've noticed we don't have a way to show a game forcing raise (except splinters). I'll have to discuss that again with my partner.

[ggwhiz]

Quartic, on 2012-January-29, 15:14, said:

We play it as pre-emptive, though checking my card just now I've noticed we don't have a way to show a game forcing raise (except splinters). I'll have to discuss that again with my partner.

Many bid the pre-empt here with hands that my partnership considers to be too strong. We are certainly off a at least 2 of the ♥A, ♣K or a trump trick making this an auto pass.

Consider some kind of Bergen and/or Jacoby 2nt so you don't have to "pre-empt" yourselves with hands this good.

[the hog]

4S is an appalling bid. This is a 3S limit. You have 8 losers in a rubbish hand where some of your S honours are likely to be redundant.

[wank]

i don't think there's too much wrong with 4s. i think bidding keyvard on this balanced mush opposite a pre-empt is bad

you've got 5 and a half losers for partner to cover with a pre-empt

[SimonFa]

I don't like playing Acol but when I do I would expect to bid this up the line, so starting with 1D would help to limit the hand. I take the view that whenever my partner opens 1M they have a 5-carder or are 4333.

What I would bid over partner's 1S I'm not sure. 2NT would show a balanced 17-19 but not sure if it is GF and gets across my Spades. As its teams I think I would just bid 4S and probably regret a missing slam at my leisure.


Regards,

Simon

[Quartic]

SimonFa, on 2012-February-05, 16:53, said:

I don't like playing Acol but when I do I would expect to bid this up the line, so starting with 1D would help to limit the hand. I take the view that whenever my partner opens 1M they have a 5-carder or are 4333.

What I would bid over partner's 1S I'm not sure. 2NT would show a balanced 17-19 but not sure if it is GF and gets across my Spades. As its teams I think I would just bid 4S and probably regret a missing slam at my leisure.


Regards,

Simon

Actually we play a wide ranging 1NT rebid (15-18), so for us 2NT is always game forcing (could be semi-balanced). It would usually deny 4 spades though, so I wouldn't choose it at the table. We don't have a way to show a 4 card major if we open a 4 card minor and rebid 1NT or 2NT, so we always open the major, though I can see the attraction of opening the minor on hands like these.

[wank]

15-18 NTs are beyond terrible.

[Quartic]

wank, on 2012-February-05, 18:12, said:

15-18 NTs are beyond terrible.

I've never had a problem playing it - we already have information about both hands, and we use a 2♣ bid to ask for more information about opener's shape and strength. The only thing we lose is the ability to play 2♣, which isn't often that useful anyway.

[neilkaz]

Just how was West expecting East to have enough cover cards for 12 tricks? He has 4 poor trump also! 4NT is a terrible decision and PD holds more than you can expect with 3 key cards and slam is hopeless.

I don't care for the preemptive 4♠ here with this poor distribution. I guess I can bid a limit raise with my really good trump as 2♠ seems cautious. After 1♠-3♠limit then opener can flash a slam signal with 4♣ and responder with nothing to cue and a minimum limit raise simply responds 4♠ ending the auction.

.. neilkaz ..

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

Given the bal. nature of responders hand, selling the hand as a limit raise
10-12 with 4 card support is sufficient.
My Acol days are long gone, but 4S was a 2-way bid, and in nature preemptive,
and the responding hand is not shapely enough for the bid to be preemptive.
Responder is also not strong enough to make game a sure thing.

Over 3S, opener can and should make a move with 4C, responder will deny any
cue bid with 4S, suggesting good trumps, or if we wants to show some live
he can make a quantitative move with 5S, or go all the way to 6S.

If you reached the slam after a limit raise, I could live with any of the
scetched auctions.
The auctions reaching 6S may be overly optimistic, but so what.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: If 4S is preemptive - Pass is clear cut.

[phil_20686]

West should just pass. If east thinks slam will be good opposite a typical 18-19 balanced hand, he should bid something else.

The east hand is ok for 4S, but it is definitely a maximum. The lack of defensive strength makes it ok for a preempt imo.

[Cyberyeti]

Quartic, on 2012-January-29, 15:14, said:

We play it as pre-emptive, though checking my card just now I've noticed we don't have a way to show a game forcing raise (except splinters). I'll have to discuss that again with my partner.

In traditional acol you invent a suit if you have to and delayed game raise if a little better and want to GF.

If you play a wide range 1N rebid, I'd recommend opening the minor on a big hand like this, and using 1♦-1♠-3N for a 4432 19 with support. We used to do this till we tweaked our system a bit, but still open minors. Now we just agree we don't get dealt 19 counts and bid them as 18s (as I'd do with this) or 20s.