[dwar0123]

Pickup partner, specific topic not discussed. Partner would be considered intermediate+.

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I felt the double was takeout but often converted to penalties, I felt I had enough shape to justify bidding the vulnerable game. Partner felt the double was just penalty.

My understanding is that it is more important to protect the possibility of our game then it was to score an extra 100 in setting a dead contract, hence that double was still takeout. To reinforce this point, I pointed out that by doubling you mark the position of the cards and it is now only down 1 for 200 instead of down 2 for 200 undoubled. Hence this double should be used for takeout with the expectation that partner will often convert with flat and even defenseless hands.

Thoughts?

[Phil]

Double is TO. 4♠ is clear.

/thread

[aguahombre]

North has a pass/4♥. If the double isn't strictly takeout, but rather convertable values, North still has a pass. If the double was agreed to be penalty, North has a pass.

[sasioc]

4♠ is normal. Partner doesn't have anything resembling a double (which should be takeout but often converted if you've no clear direction, as you suggest).

[bd71]

Let's assume there is explicit agreement this X is penalty. How much more does the North hand need to make X the right call in the mine of everyone who says he's shy of a penalty double?

[aguahombre]

bd71, on 2012-January-29, 01:22, said:

Let's assume there is explicit agreement this X is penalty. How much more does the North hand need to make X the right call in the mine of everyone who says he's shy of a penalty double?

Don't have experience with this double being pure penalty, but for starters you should have it beat. We can see, here that partner is not void in hearts, but North cannot possibly know that. And, they could easily make an overtrick if both clubs don't cash.