[32519]

In the thread titled Preempt 1st/2nd seat http://www.bridgebas...pt-1st2nd-seat/ I raised a question which never received an answer. The question is now repeated in a new thread.

In the above mentioned thread the_dude posted:
“Remember preempting is essentially accelerating the auction, giving less room for accurate hand description. Second seat is important because it presents least opportunity to disrupt the opponents communications and the greatest opportunity to disrupt your own.

When you preempt in first seat, you may be tripping up your partner, but you are also tripping up TWO opponents. But in second seat, your RHO has already communicated SIGNIFICANT information to his partner by virtue of his pass. Accelerating the auction now often does just as much damage to your partner as it does to the opponents.”

I found this thread fascinating when read alongside awm’s thread, “Shape First!” http://www.bridgebas...14-shape-first/ Here are just two extracts from awm’s thread:
• Looking at the CCs of Bermuda bowl pairs, you see a lot of wildly different stuff. That's one of the great things about bridge. But one thing that seems almost universal in bidding trends is that showing shape early is good.
• I like most auctions to emphasize shape and not high cards though, since shape is really what’s important.

Both threads contain convincing arguments when to bid (2nd seat pre-empt versus showing your shape). The range of shape showing bids in any partnership is limited by your own imagination (and partnership agreements). Some popular shapely bids which immediately come to mind are:
• Muiderberg
• Multi 2NT showing 5-5 minors
• Canape

Whose advice is better here? Think twice before pre-empting in 2nd seat? Or get into the auction and show your shape?

[barmar]

I don't think it's either-or. The guideline about 2nd seat preempts doesn't say not to do them, just to be more sound when you do. If you have shape-showing bids, the same goes for these: don't use them as recklessly in 2nd seat as 1st/3rd.

[hrothgar]

Barry nailed this...

Most of my real partnerships had pretty explicit understands about what an opening preempt looked like by seat.

The maximum and minimum strengths / suit quality requires varied dramatically

[Statto]

barmar, on 2012-January-25, 11:35, said:

... don't use them as recklessly in 2nd seat as 1st/3rd.

+1, but don't use them as recklessly in 1st seat as 3rd

[whereagles]

32519, on 2012-January-25, 00:21, said:

Whose advice is better here? Think twice before pre-empting in 2nd seat? Or get into the auction and show your shape?

Preempts show shape and high ODR (i.e. an offensive hand). It's wrong to preempt on, say,

Axx
AQxxxx
xxx
x

just because you have "shape". You do hve shape, but also have 2.5 quick tricks vs a contract by opponents, so it's more appropriate to open 1H. Compare with

xxx
KQJxxx
QJT
x

Now you have like 1 tricks on defense and some 6 on offense. This hand is ideal for preempt (3H comes to mind).

The 2nd seat thing is correct. The odds of preempting pard in 2nd seat are higher than in 1st seat so you should keep your prees in this seat relatively pure.

[hrothgar]

whereagles, on 2012-January-26, 05:23, said:

Preempts show shape and high ODR (i.e. an offensive hand). It's wrong to preempt on, say,

Axx
AQxxxx
xxx
x

Funny, give the heart suit a wee bit more tecture and this would have been considered a prototypical 2♥ opening a few years back

[the_dude]

As the person you quoted, let me elaborate since I didn't put it very well above. I wasn't trying to say don't preempt in second seat - since as mentioned, getting your shape across early has huge benefits.

What I was trying to say is that second seat preempts should bedisciplined - meaning you strictly adhere to whatever your partnership defines as a preemptive hand given the vulnerability. Since you have accelerated the auction and your partner is 50% likely to hold the good hand, you want him to know exactly what you have so he can make a good decision. So long as your second seat preempts accurately describe your hand, let'em rip.

(Preempts in 1st seat, and even more so in 3rd seat, can be much looser (read: deviating from your accepted standards) because the possibility for enemy disruption is so much higher.)

[barmar]

And the shape-showing bids are ALSO preempts. They're just 2-suited preempts rather than 1-suited.

However, because they're so much more descriptive, it may not be as bad if partner has the good hand. He should be able to tell how well your hands will fit, and know what to do.