Help
Can someone please help me?
I am a begginer and played tonight.
My partner and i had ops and one was an "expert".
He has 3 points counted by a queen of hearts and a jack of clubs.
he had 5 hearts to the queen and a singleton diamond, thats it?
We were playing rubber bridge
he bid 1 heart over my partners 1 diamond
I asked the expert to explain his bid as i didnt under stand it.
he/she refused to do so
was a 1heart bid correct with 3 high card pints and 5 hearts??
I need to learn this game but i cannot if experts seem to bid incorreclty and refuse to
explain their bids which seems rather rude?
Thank you
Peter
Sorry, i should add i asked expert to explain bid after my partner had got bid eventually and i saw experts hand as dummy.
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Bidding correctly? Same as title
#2
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Posted 2012-January-21, 16:53
Most people I know wouldn't overcall with that holding. In my partnerships, an overcall at the one level shows about 8 to 16 points and a five card suit. Some suggest 7 to 17 points.
It seems to me that your opponent psyched. That is, he made a bid that was "a deliberate and gross misstatement of honor strength and/or of suit length". Such bids are legal, as long as the bidder's partner doesn't expect them, but they are generally "not done" against new players, who cannot be assumed to expect or understand them. Either that or he overbid (perhaps he misevaluated his hand). In either case, he probably declined to explain because he was embarrassed. That's not a valid reason, of course, but it happens.
You might also keep in mind that a lot of the people who label themselves "expert" on BBO aren't even close to that status.
BTW, don't think of a psych by an opponent as "cheating". It isn't. If it happens, don't let it upset you, just learn from it.
It seems to me that your opponent psyched. That is, he made a bid that was "a deliberate and gross misstatement of honor strength and/or of suit length". Such bids are legal, as long as the bidder's partner doesn't expect them, but they are generally "not done" against new players, who cannot be assumed to expect or understand them. Either that or he overbid (perhaps he misevaluated his hand). In either case, he probably declined to explain because he was embarrassed. That's not a valid reason, of course, but it happens.
You might also keep in mind that a lot of the people who label themselves "expert" on BBO aren't even close to that status.
BTW, don't think of a psych by an opponent as "cheating". It isn't. If it happens, don't let it upset you, just learn from it.
--------------------
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
Our ultimate goal on defense is to know by trick two or three everyone's hand at the table. -- Mike777
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
Our ultimate goal on defense is to know by trick two or three everyone's hand at the table. -- Mike777
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#3
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Posted 2012-January-21, 17:21
Thank you for your reply.
I understand what you mean by that, and although it may be a legal bid and not "cheating", there seems little point in having convention cards if a player can really bid what they like with whatever they have,with just 3 high card points and not even a long weak suit bid. if their CC does not explain their bidding style, then it seems pointless playing with that person as one can never know what they have to any degree.
I also appreciate what you say about so called "expert" status, i have also found some players calling themselves begginners and playing like an expert.
I guess every game will always have those type of "sham" players.
Peter
I understand what you mean by that, and although it may be a legal bid and not "cheating", there seems little point in having convention cards if a player can really bid what they like with whatever they have,with just 3 high card points and not even a long weak suit bid. if their CC does not explain their bidding style, then it seems pointless playing with that person as one can never know what they have to any degree.
I also appreciate what you say about so called "expert" status, i have also found some players calling themselves begginners and playing like an expert.
I guess every game will always have those type of "sham" players.
Peter
#4
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Posted 2012-January-21, 20:35
Don't misunderstand the purpose of a psych - it's to throw a monkey wrench into opponents' bidding. If you do it right, then sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. If you do it too often, your partner begins to expect it, and now you have an implicit partnership understanding which must be disclosed. If you don't do it often enough for that, it will be a very rare bid. The relative skill level between the psyched and his opponents comes in, frankly, because if your partnership is good enough to make the occasional psych, and for the partner of the psyched to handle it (I do not mean that he expects it, only that he's not going to go nuts in the bidding or the post-mortem), then you don't need to psych against players who aren't as good as you are. That's why psychs by good players against new players, while legal, are frowned upon.
Another thing: it may be a good thing (in the appropriate field) to establish a reputation for psyching, and then not do it, or do it very rarely. Your opponents may be worried, even if you don't psych.
We have a very good player locally who has that reputation. He's also very ethical; he doesn't psych against players he judges aren't good enough to handle it. I've been playing here for almost twenty years, and the first time he psyched against my partner and I was about a year ago. Far from being annoyed, I felt good (even though neither of us caught the psych and we got a bad board) because to me it signified that my opponent felt my partner and I had "arrived" at a level where we were competent enough to deal with it. After the hand, I looked at this guy and said, smilingly, "don't do that again!" He replied "Nope, not that one!" Meaning there are other psychs he might perpetrate against us. I don't know how often he psychs, but I don't expect to see one from him in the next several years.
As the partner of a psycher, if he does it rarely, I'm just going to bid as if all his calls are legit. If he gets us in trouble on one hand in ten thousand, I'm not going to worry about it. If he psychs often enough that I begin to expect it, I'll alert and explain our agreed meaning, but add "he likes to psych in this position" or some such. With most of my partners, I'd expect that to happen once, if ever. I do, btw, have partners who would never psych, and would be upset with me if I did, so I don't psych with them. In fact, I think the last time I psyched was in 1972.
Bottom line: psychs are part of the game, and banning them altogether, as some would like to do, will make it a different and, for me at least, less exciting one.
Another thing: it may be a good thing (in the appropriate field) to establish a reputation for psyching, and then not do it, or do it very rarely. Your opponents may be worried, even if you don't psych.
We have a very good player locally who has that reputation. He's also very ethical; he doesn't psych against players he judges aren't good enough to handle it. I've been playing here for almost twenty years, and the first time he psyched against my partner and I was about a year ago. Far from being annoyed, I felt good (even though neither of us caught the psych and we got a bad board) because to me it signified that my opponent felt my partner and I had "arrived" at a level where we were competent enough to deal with it. After the hand, I looked at this guy and said, smilingly, "don't do that again!" He replied "Nope, not that one!" Meaning there are other psychs he might perpetrate against us. I don't know how often he psychs, but I don't expect to see one from him in the next several years.
As the partner of a psycher, if he does it rarely, I'm just going to bid as if all his calls are legit. If he gets us in trouble on one hand in ten thousand, I'm not going to worry about it. If he psychs often enough that I begin to expect it, I'll alert and explain our agreed meaning, but add "he likes to psych in this position" or some such. With most of my partners, I'd expect that to happen once, if ever. I do, btw, have partners who would never psych, and would be upset with me if I did, so I don't psych with them. In fact, I think the last time I psyched was in 1972.
Bottom line: psychs are part of the game, and banning them altogether, as some would like to do, will make it a different and, for me at least, less exciting one.
--------------------
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
Our ultimate goal on defense is to know by trick two or three everyone's hand at the table. -- Mike777
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
Our ultimate goal on defense is to know by trick two or three everyone's hand at the table. -- Mike777
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#5
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Posted 2012-January-22, 05:20
Thank you Blackshoe for the further reply and for explaining all that.
I have to agree that in my limited time playing duplicate bridge, that type of bidding does seem "legit" to me because with duplicate one is trying to get the highest score regardless of whether or not a hand is won or lost so to speak.
With rubber it seems to me at least less legitmate.
However, I now understand that this will crop up some times, and maybe I will also psych bid this way myself now and again, if you cant beat them, join them!
Thanks again
Peter
I have to agree that in my limited time playing duplicate bridge, that type of bidding does seem "legit" to me because with duplicate one is trying to get the highest score regardless of whether or not a hand is won or lost so to speak.
With rubber it seems to me at least less legitmate.
However, I now understand that this will crop up some times, and maybe I will also psych bid this way myself now and again, if you cant beat them, join them!
Thanks again
Peter
#6
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Posted 2012-January-23, 02:46
It is a common tactic to bid on any excuse against novices because most do not know how to handle interference. I do not think any real experts would do this though. More likely the player is an intermediate and does not really understand bidding. You are entitled to know your opponents' agreements - if the "expert" refused to answer then you could ask their partner. If the partner thought it was a normal overcall then 1♥ is probably either a psyche or a misbid. If the opponents refused to give a description of their agreement then I would simply refuse to play a card until they either answered or left the table.
Just so you know, if I bid something with that hand it would probably be 2♥ rather than 1♥. However I would recommend that you do not make bids such as these while you are learning the game. Stick to your system and play within it to the best of your ability. You will probably enjoy the game more this way and so will your partners. You will not learn much psyching against other beginners anyway. Instead, learn how to deal with interference bids and then the opposing psyches will (to some extent) get dealt with too.
Just so you know, if I bid something with that hand it would probably be 2♥ rather than 1♥. However I would recommend that you do not make bids such as these while you are learning the game. Stick to your system and play within it to the best of your ability. You will probably enjoy the game more this way and so will your partners. You will not learn much psyching against other beginners anyway. Instead, learn how to deal with interference bids and then the opposing psyches will (to some extent) get dealt with too.
(-: Zel :-)
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