[Phil]

---

-110 was a poor score even in a bad club game.

ATB?

[aguahombre]

IMO, no blame to the players (E/W). An lucky situation for support double people; and that is not a dig against the method. A raise by opener would have worked better--fooling West into thinking he should make a Law bid of 3S.

[mike777]

east 100%


east has too many extras and must tell west somehow over 3d...
west could have so little and 4s could make

I hope a 1s vul freebid shows at least something useful here.

[jmcw]

mike777, on 2012-January-20, 22:30, said:

east 100%


east has too many extras and must tell west somehow over 3d...
west could have so little and 4s could make

I hope a 1s vul freebid shows at least something useful here.

Agree. What about X of 3♦?

[aguahombre]

Double means what I want it to mean, when I want it to mean that.

[rhm]

Phil, on 2012-January-20, 19:41, said:

---

-110 was a poor score even in a bad club game.

ATB?

East should bid 3♠ in my opinion, an unusual action with only 3 card support, but justified by his singleton ♦.
There are 17 total trumps and the honor location is pure. East can deduce this.
Support doubles are helpful here. West can not be in doubt how many trumps he will find in dummy.
The fact that East does neither pass nor bid 3♥ hints at his exact distribution being the most likely one: 3♠=3♥=1♦=6♣. So West can correct if necessary (not here of course).
Double would show a stronger hand in HCP and more diamonds, not this hand.

Rainer Herrmann

[bluecalm]

Quote

There are 17 total trumps and the honor location is pure. East can deduce this.

Isn't it possible that W still have only 4 spades from E's point of view ?

Quote

Double would show a stronger hand in HCP and more diamonds, not this hand.

Agree with stronger part, disagree with diamonds part.

[mcphee]

Opening hand has a pretty clear hesitation over 3D which should give the responder all the information required to bid 3S. If you are not playing this hesitation gadget add it to your CC.

I do not believe opening hand can now bid 3S. Pass and dble are the only considerations. This hand is not going to do well with the AH over the K, on offense or Defense. West is still there if you pass and can work out to compete or pass. I vote pass claiming I am chicken to dble.

[rhm]

bluecalm, on 2012-January-21, 05:39, said:

Isn't it possible that W still have only 4 spades from E's point of view ?

Of course it is. But 4-3 fits are not the end of the world. I have made slams in 4-3 fits, some of which would only make there.

You are missing some finer points:

1) If opponents have a nine card fit in ♦ and it certainly sounds like they do, you must have at least an 8 card fit yourself.
2) I explained why a 3♠ bid by East hints at 3♠=3 ♥=1♦=6♣ distribution
3) Partner bid 1♠. His spades must be longer than his ♥. The worst distribution partner could have is 4♠=3♥=3♦=3♣, 4♠=3♥=4♦=2♣ being very unlikely. Anyway I think a negative double is more appropriate with 4-3 in the majors over 1♣-(1♦)
4) Your ♠s are strong and you made it clear that you have only three cards in ♠. If partner is a good player and has a weak 4 card ♠ suit, he should run to 4♣ into the "known" nine card fit.

Rainer Herrmann

[Fluffy]

West´s ♦xxx are a good indicator to act, at MPs at least, but pass is reasonable IMO, East doesn´t have that much arguments for 3♠, but at MPs it can be the winning one.

[gszes]

e 100% way too much stuff to pass 3d

bid 3h

bids out our pattern shows the extra values
and is safe (if p would bypass a 4 card heart
suit in order to repeat 2s your p likes to
keep you uninformed find another one)---

yes indeed you could be 3415 for this bid
but if p raises hearts just convert back to
spades because they have to have 5 of them
(then look for another p).

this allows you to find spade and club contracts
and p should not have any trouble understanding
3h as an offensive hand.

[masse24]

mcphee, on 2012-January-21, 06:15, said:

...If you are not playing this hesitation gadget add it to your CC.

Great idea....thanks!

This "gadget" sort of alerts itself, so no alert needed, right?

[aguahombre]

Gszes: Does partner pull 3H to 4C with 4-3-3-3? Is that a good thing if you are 3-4-1-5?

[the_dude]

West can see that this hand has all the hallmarks of taking one more trick than the LOTT would indicate. xxx in the long trump hand means taking the ruff in the short hand - this in itself is often an extra trick vs what the Law says. Also the double fit (opener rates to have 5 clubs) and all values in our suits can indicate more tricks than the Law.

And that's assuming 16 total trumps. If there are 17 total trumps (easily possible) then it is even clearer to bid 3S.

This is alot harder for East to judge. If West turns up with 4342 or 4333 then East has made a mistake by bidding again.

(PS: sorry about bringing the Law up in the A/E forums .. but it actually works for me Hope it isn't a ban-able offense )

[dake50]

Support double then 3S shows some monster??
Or minimum opener liking spades -
6-side suit with 2-tops, a single, 2 S-tops this time.
Let new suit force start the monster?

[gszes]

aguahombre, on 2012-January-21, 17:37, said:

Gszes: Does partner pull 3H to 4C with 4-3-3-3? Is that a good thing if you are 3-4-1-5?

yes and its the best we can do (I have never been a fan of the weak hand playing a 43 fit
---though with really good spades QJTx maybe 3s could work)
bridge is a game of %--every once in a while you will arrive in a less than
optimal spot just because risk vs reward makes searching worthwhile. If p turns up
with 4333 and a minimum they must return to 4c.

There is way too much offensive potential in this hand to sit after 3d. If you wish to
save x for stronger hands (generally more balanced) bidding 3h in this situation
clarifies things for p as to your hand type.

[Phil]

I've had the chance to run this by some pretty experienced players (not a slight on BBF by any means) and 3♠ is a standout. Its not because we are trying to reach some sexy 43 fit, but simply because the hand has so much playing strength. Partner probably has thee diamonds, so if he has only 4 spades he has three clubs. Partner also knows we are bidding 3 over 3 with three trump, so we need to have some extreme safe and should feel comfortable with retreating to 4♣ with four bad spades.

3♥shows a much stronger hand. Its the same kind of hand that would bid 3♥ if RHO passed.

Double is completely wrong with this. It shows more diamonds and more strength. Partner should leave it in with a balanced hand with four trump.

[bluecalm]

So what do we do with:
a)AKx Jxx x AKJxxx
b)AQx AQxx x AJxxx

playing this style ?

Quote

Double is completely wrong with this. It shows more diamonds and more strength. Partner should leave it in with a balanced hand with four trump.

But if we have more diamonds then partner never has four of them

[whereagles]

To squander dbl, the most flexible bid, just to show a 3 card raise must be technically wrong. No wonder stuff like this is bound to happen.

Anyway, I disagree with 3S. How do you know pard has 5 spades? Just dbl 3D and let pard do the guessing (i.e. blame transfer).

[aguahombre]

bluecalm, on 2012-January-22, 10:57, said:

But if we have more diamonds then partner never has four of them

Visit St. George sometime