[paulg]

Lead: ♦5

---

First of the final eight boards of a 48-board match and you have a good lead, so both Souths gave this hand some consideration and, eventually, came up with the same line. With suits breaking it made little difference but neither of us were happy we'd found the best line.

How do you think it should be played?

[hrothgar]

paulg, on 2012-January-16, 08:07, said:

Lead: ♦5

---

First of the final eight boards of a 48-board match and you have a good lead, so both Souths gave this hand some consideration and, eventually, came up with the same line. With suits breaking it made little difference but neither of us were happy we'd found the best line.

How do you think it should be played?

I am notoriously bad at such things, but...

Win the top diamond.
Heart to the Ace
Ruff a heart low
Club to the King
Ruff a Heart High
High trump (If trumps split 2-2 you're golden) If not
Top Diamond
Ruff a diamond low
Pull the last trump

(I also considered leading a spade to the Jack at round two. However, I like this line better)

[billw55]

♦A
♥A
♠ to K

This may remove the need to ruff a second heart. If not, it provides another return to hand.

[hrothgar]

billw55, on 2012-January-16, 10:54, said:

♦A
♥A
♠ to K

This may remove the need to ruff a second heart. If not, it provides another return to hand.

Here's the rub...

The only real danger with ruffing two Hearts in dummy is the (slight) chance of 4-0 club break, coupled with a third round diamond ruff

If you attack Spades you run into the risk of a Spade ruff. I'd argue that this is much more likely than something going wrong with the first line...

[Trumpace]

From the lead it looks like diamonds are no worse than 5-3.

Win the diamond A. Cash trump Ace.

If both follow to trumps, heart to A, and heart ruff low. Diamond K, low diamond ruffed in hand low and heart ruffed high. Small trump to hand to draw trumps and claim.

If trumps prove to be 4-0.

Heart to A and heart ruff low, and draw trumps. Third round of hearts.
If hearts are 4-3 claim,
else guess spades with DK as entry to good spade.

[phil_20686]

There seem to be lots of good lines.

Heat to the ace ruff a heart low AC club to the K ruff a heart with the J. Then you would play top diamond diamond ruff, and claim. If someone shows out on the ace of clubs you are still well placed. Best just to exit with a spade now, you can ruff a second heart low, cash the club J cross in spades draw trumps and claim.

These lines might both be improved by playing a spade off dummy, if crossing in spades is easier, Its hard to weigh the extra danger of a trump promotion on a spade vs the extra chances of Axx or Ax to pitch a heart on.

An alternative is to cross in hearts and play a spade up. This was my first instinct. if you guess the spades right, you will definitely have improved your position, and if not you can always return to the line above, using a spade ruff in place of a heart entry. Though it may then be difficult to pick up 4-0 trumps. Thus it feels like a heart to the ace and a spade to the Jack is best.

A third alternative is to try to ruff two spades and a diamond for a dummy reversal, not sure that has anything to recommend it.

Having said that, the ruffing line is fairly fatous, as if the hearts are 4-3 one ruff sets them up, so the second ruff is extra danger for no real gain. Am off to think some more.

[JLOGIC]

Heh, this is a cool thread because my instinct irl on these hands is always to play my cards in the optimal order to claim as quickly as possible. I def do not give these hands enough thought.

[MrAce]

Trumpace, on 2012-January-16, 11:09, said:

From the lead it looks like diamonds are no worse than 5-3.

Win the diamond A. Cash trump Ace.

If both follow to trumps, heart to A, and heart ruff low. Diamond K, low diamond ruffed in hand low and heart ruffed high. Small trump to hand to draw trumps and claim.

If trumps prove to be 4-0.

Heart to A and heart ruff low, and draw trumps. Third round of hearts.
If hearts are 4-3 claim,
else guess spades with DK as entry to good spade.

Thats what i like, this line doesnt go down auto when 4-0 ♣ and also i see you played your cards in different order than Hrothgar( such as cashing ♦K and ruffing a ♦ earlier than 3rd ♥ ruff, because otherwise West with 3♦+2♥+3♣ could discard a ♦ on 3rd ♥)

His line is superior if West started with doubleton or stiff or 7 card diamond but clubs were 2-2. But i like your line because you started with club A.

[gnasher]

MrAce, on 2012-January-17, 22:13, said:

Thats what i like, this line doesnt go down auto when 4-0 ♣ and also i see you played your cards in different order than Hrothgar( such as cashing ♦K and ruffing a ♦ earlier than 3rd ♥ ruff, because otherwise West with 3♦+2♥+3♣ could discard a ♦ on 3rd ♥)

His line is superior if West started with doubleton or stiff or 7 card diamond but clubs were 2-2. But i like your line because you started with club A.

Hrothgar doesn't automatically go down with clubs 4-0. He sees the 4-0 break in time to change his plan.

[MrAce]

gnasher, on 2012-January-18, 03:46, said:

Hrothgar doesn't automatically go down with clubs 4-0. He sees the 4-0 break in time to change his plan.

Yes, i used wrong words. He can change his plan of course but he will be in awkward position compared to other line unless i am failing to see an obvious success line that is as decent as the other line.

What can he do after see 4-0 trumps ?

-He can try to play a ♠ towards dummy and guess correct incase ♥were 5-2

-He can clear trumps and hope ♥ were 4-3

Assume he choosed line 1 and played a ♠ and assume West jumped up with Ace giving no problem with the guess (if E had 4 trumps) and played 3rd ♥ and defeated when 5-2♥. Or worse scenario he misguessed ♠ and ♥ were 4-3 now defense played 2nd ♠ forcing him to ruff in hand Kxx vs AJ in dummy trumps and still 3 trumps out to clear and no entry to hand to cash 3rd trump.

Or assume he choosed line 2 and cleared trumps but hearts were 5-2 and he went down since there wont be a ♠ trick due to entry.

Trumpace's line seems to cater for both with the risk of being ruffed/overruffed at 2nd or 3rd ♦ but as he said the lead says otherwise.

[gszes]

trick 1 dia ace
trick 2 club ace

if trumps no worse than 3/1

trick 3 heart to ace
trick 4 ruff heart low
trick 5 low trump to hand (you never know trumps might break 22)
trick 6 ruff heart
trick 7 dia k
trick 8 ruff dia
trick 9 pull last trump (if necessary) or lead spade (see trick 10)
trick 10 lead a spade toward K hoping for highly improbable overtrick

if trumps are 4/0

trick 3 lead spade J* I give up the 25% chance of lho having the spade AQ
and depend on the other 75% existing and rho telling me how to play the spade
suit. If rho has the A (w/o) the Q they have a legitimate worry we have Qx and a stiff dia
or stiff Q of spades and if they duck the A we have no spade losers (with Qx we pitch
spade X on dia K). If rho has the Q w/o the ace they are extremely unlikely to cover
since there is no reason to assume we do not have the spade A for this play.
If rho has the AQ then covering with the Q makes sense and we will later take a ruffing
finesse against the A if needed. No matter what happens in spades we are creating another
quick entry to our hand so we can set up crossruff and still pull trumps.

trick 4 will depend on who wins trick 3 and what they return for ex if E wins Q at trick 3
and returns a spade pitch a heart taking the ruffing finesse against the suposed AQ with RHO.

basically the plan is to hope the 75% play we made in spades to pay off for 1 spade trick
and 1 low heart ruff. Even if lho wins the spade Q we are not dead because we can convert
to hoping hearts are 43 by ruffing 1 heart low. It is far easier to duck with the spade A
when you lead up toward the KJT it is far more difficult to duck the spade A when you lead the J.
The key to playing the spade J is to do it early in the play so opps have no chance to see most of
your assets.

[cherdano]

JLOGIC, on 2012-January-17, 14:38, said:

Heh, this is a cool thread because my instinct irl on these hands is always to play my cards in the optimal order to claim as quickly as possible. I def do not give these hands enough thought.

That's what I would do too if I had to worry as much as you about slow play penalties.

[rhm]

A better line:

T1: ♦A
T2: ♣A

If both follow to the ♣A

T3: ♥A
T4: ♥, ruffed low
T5: ♠K to prepare a safe return to hand after the second ♥ has been ruffed high.

This line is a practical certainty. It looses only to a few extreme layouts:

♠ are 1-6 or 0-7, West being short, contraindicated because most West would lead a singleton spade.
♦ are 7-1 and the 7 card ♦ holder has the ♠A, in which case I am sure we would have heard from the non-vulnerable opponent in the bidding.

or ♥s split 6-1, East being short.

Note that this line need not care about somebody being 2-2 in the red suits, since the second ♦ will only be cashed after trumps have been drawn.
This looks to me much safer than a third round ♦ ruff, which most other lines seem to risk for no good reason.

If trumps are 4-0:

♥A, ♥ruff low, draw trumps, ♠; winning when either ♥ break or guessing ♠ or a defensive slip.

Rainer Herrmann

[gszes]

rhm, on 2012-January-20, 04:39, said:

A better line:

T1: ♦A
T2: ♣A

If both follow to the ♣A

T3: ♥A
T4: ♥, ruffed low
T5: ♠K to prepare a safe return to hand after the second ♥ has been ruffed high.

This line is a practical certainty. It looses only to a few extreme layouts:

♠ are 1-6 or 0-7, West being short, contraindicated because most West would lead a singleton spade.
♦ are 7-1 and the 7 card ♦ holder has the ♠A, in which case I am sure we would have heard from the non-vulnerable opponent in the bidding.

or ♥s split 6-1, East being short.

Note that this line need not care about somebody being 2-2 in the red suits, since the second ♦ will only be cashed after trumps have been drawn.
This looks to me much safer than a third round ♦ ruff, which most other lines seem to risk for no good reason.

If trumps are 4-0:

♥A, ♥ruff low, draw trumps, ♠; winning when either ♥ break or guessing ♠ or a defensive slip.

Rainer Herrmann

your lop has convinced me I was lazy if trumps break 31 or 22

trick 1 dia A
trick 2 spade J (see my explanation above for 75% chance of
producing a spade trick) then proceed along best lines
preferring to use a second round of spades if necessary as a
quick reentry to your hand if available. The general idea being
ruff 1 heart low and if the spade J has not produced a
spade trick then either depend on 43 hearts or (with
3/1 trumps) ruffing a second heart high.