[straube]

I didn't want to hijack Adam's thread any more, but I'd be interested in his input here. Atul asks...

akhare, on 2012-January-10, 02:13, said:

This is tangential to the OP, but in that case why not play:

X: Negative
2♥: NFB
2S: Raise
2N: Natural
3♣: Clubs
3♦: ♥, possible FSJ
3♥: ♠ raise
3♠: ♠ raise

I'd be happy giving up FSJs at the 3-level and I'd like to get 2N natural back (thanks very much), but there's so many 1M-overcall situations and it would be nice to have something that one could remember at the table.

I remember that in Rodwell's interview he commented on Bergen's idea of Switch (in the above case 2H would show clubs and 3C would show hearts) and I don't think he liked the idea. I also think he didn't like negative free bids (except for certain cases with his strong club). I think the idea is that standards for responding get lowered, but also NBs don't promise enough strength to support opener in describing his hand. The auction just dies. Anyway, that's been my concern. I feel the same way about transfers. If they don't promise invitational strength (and it would be tempting to cheat here), opener usually just accepts the transfer. Same difference. By making the bid forcing, responder has to have GI+.

I also want to know right away if partner is showing a fit for me or just his own suit.

So I'm fine if people want to debate these points, but I'd also be interested in other structures that used something like Bergen at the 3-level and FSJs/splinters at the 4-level (and 3S when hearts are trump).

[gwnn]

In switch, 2♥ would not show clubs and 3♣ would not show hearts. Switch applies only if hearts are not forced to the 3 level. There's a simple rule for this: whenever your opponents overcall with a black suit, switch applies.

[straube]

gwnn, on 2012-January-10, 03:10, said:

In switch, 2♥ would not show clubs and 3♣ would not show hearts. Switch applies only if hearts are not forced to the 3 level. There's a simple rule for this: whenever your opponents overcall with a black suit, switch applies.

Thanks. I didn't know that, but it makes more sense.

[straube]

How about...

If there are 2 jump shift overcalls....1H (1S) or 1S (2C)

cue=3-cd limit raise+
raise=3-cd raise, rarely bids again
lowest jump shift=4-cd limit raise+
higher jump shift=mixed raise
double jump=weak raise

If there is 1 jump shift overcall...1H (2C) or 2S (2D)

cue=any limit raise
raise=3-cd raise, rarely bids again
jump shift=mixed raise
double jump=weak raise

If there are no jump shift overcalls... 1H (2D) or 1S (2H)

cue=any limit raise
raise=3-cd raise or mixed raise
double jump=weak raise


2N would be GI with a stopper and 4L would be FSJ or splinter.

Of the three situations, I'm probably least convinced that the last one is right.

[gwnn]

My expression was sloppy, though. It should say "switch applies if the unbid major is not forced a level higher".

1♠-(2♣) switch applies
also
1♥-(2♣)
or
1♥-(2♠)

[Free]

I play switch only if a black suit of a different rank is overcalled. So not after 1♦-(n♣) and not after 1♥-(n♠) (n = 1, 2, 3 or sometimes 4).

@gwnn: what is the unbid Major after 1♥-(2♠)?

[gwnn]

since there is no unbid major, it doesnt apply. obviously i also meant that, but I couldn't be bothered to write that part.

[Zelandakh]

I see in your scheme you were specifically trying to get a mixed raise in there but perhaps you will like this anyway. Basically transfers with "intermediate free bids":-

1H - (1S)
=========
X = clubs or balanced without stop
1N = nat
2C = diamonds
2D = 3 card LR+
2H = weak 3 card raise
2S = 3 card LR+
2N = 4 card LR+
3m = fit jump
3H = weak 4 card raise

1H - (2C)
=========
X = 4 spades
2D = 5+ spades, weak or GF
2H = weak 3 card raise
2S = 5+ spades, INV
2N = 3 card LR+
3C = diamonds
3D = 4 card LR+
3H = weak 4 card raise

1H - (2D)
=========
X = 4+ spades
2H = weak 3 card raise
2S = 5+ spades, INV
2N = 3 card LR+
3C = diamonds
3D = 4 card LR+
3H = weak 4 card raise

1S - (2C)
=========
X = 4 hearts
2D = 5+ hearts, weak or GF
2H = 5+ hearts, INV
2S = weak 3 card raise
2N = 3 card LR+
3C = diamonds
3D = diamonds, INV
3H = 4 card LR+
3S = weak 4 card raise

1S - (2D)
=========
X = 4+ hearts
2H = 5+ hearts, INV
2S = weak 3 card raise
2N = clubs
3C = clubs, INV
3D = 3 card LR+
3H = 4 card LR+
3S = weak 4 card raise

1S - (2H)
=========
X = clubs
2S = weak 3 card raise
2N = 3 card LR+
3C = diamonds
3D = diamonds, INV
3H = 4 card LR+
3S = weak 4 card raise

[straube]

We use something similar over 1H (1S)

dbl-NTish or minors, partner may rebid 1N without a stopper. In general, we want overcaller on lead here
1N-clubs
2C-diamonds
2D-constructive raise
2H-raise
2S-LR with three
2N-LR with four (have to recheck the notes on this)
FSJs

but I would like to have a mixed raise there.

I would amend to

3C-WJS
3D-mixed raise

In general, I like to be able to force with suits. For instance, I'd be nervous about the 1H (2C) situation in not being able to show diamonds.

1H (2C) 3C showing diamonds. We don't now have 1H (2C) 2D P 3D agreeing diamonds.

So does 1H (2C) 3C P 3D show a fit? Is it forcing? Does it deny a fit and show a bad hand? And how do we look for a stopper in clubs?

1H (2C) 3C P

and I hold...
Axxx Axxxx xx Ax 3D, 3S, or 3N?
Ax Axxxx Axxx xx 3D or 4D?
xx Axxxx Axxx Ax 3D or 3N or 4D?

There just isn't much room to sort anything out.

[straube]

So on the other thread, I'm interpreting Justin's structure to be...

3M-always weak
1 under 3M-always mixed raise
2N-always LR
cue-3-cd limit raise unless it is 1-under (then 3 and 4-cd LR collapsed into 2N)
3-level jump shifts-WJS unless otherwise coopted

dbl is negative or perhaps a hand that would bid a natural 2N