[Fluffy]

♠109x
♥Qx
♦AJxx
♣KQJx

All vul, MPs, RHO deals and opens 1♠


(1♠)-pass-(pass)-2♥
(2♠)-??

[mike777]

I will try 2nt


I think it shouldshow this type of hand, basically a scramble.

In any event a good hand to discuss later in the bar if 2nt in comp should ever be natural.

[gnasher]

I'd make a takeout double.

[gwnn]

I can think of three alternatives: doblo, contro and doublet.

[Phil]

Double is penalty for me. As I type this I'm thinking, "maybe it is for me, but I'm not sure the case in any of my partnerships".

So when Pclayton partners Phil he needs to bid 2N for takeout. Otherwise its a x.

[Fluffy]

Phil, on 2012-January-06, 09:10, said:

Double is penalty for me. As I type this I'm thinking, "maybe it is for me, but I'm not sure the case in any of my partnerships".

So when Pclayton partners Phil he needs to bid 2N for takeout. Otherwise its a x.

Sorry Phil, don´t you think 2NT natural with 13-15 and some stopper is much more likelly than take out?, or at least frequent enough that an easy to forget convention liek 2NT is not worth it.

[whereagles]

Obvious TO dbl if you're playing that way. Otherwise it's a somewhat shaky, but acceptable, 2NT bid (shows 13-14; exactly what you have).

[mike777]

I think Lawrence plays double here as penalty, interesting everyone here plays it takeout.

Not sure what x is here in BWS.

[Phil]

Fluffy, on 2012-January-06, 10:05, said:

Sorry Phil, don´t you think 2NT natural with 13-15 and some stopper is much more likelly than take out?, or at least frequent enough that an easy to forget convention liek 2NT is not worth it.

I don't know there is a wide spectrum of hands that cannot push to 3N, nor wants to make a penalty x of 2♠.

Anyway, 2N in competition isn't natural (for me), and 2N as takeout makes perfect sense in this context.

[gnasher]

I think that the most useful meaning for 2NT is as a good raise in hearts.

[Phil]

gnasher, on 2012-January-06, 11:30, said:

I think that the most useful meaning for 2NT is as a good raise in hearts.

+1. Should have thought of that.

[jmcw]

I dunno what 2Nt is here, so I'm not bidding it.

If its t/o to a minor then it seems reasonable, but risky.
If its a good ♥ raise then I don't have it.
If its natural then I don't have that either.

I'll try 3♥, but not real happy about it.

[whereagles]

gnasher, on 2012-January-06, 11:30, said:

I think that the most useful meaning for 2NT is as a good raise in hearts.

-1. The 12-14 balanced hand that passes 1x is extremely common and you need 2NT to show it.

[Fluffy]

I asked partner after hand and he said as some local experts that double is penalty so would pass, its not like its a dreadful contract, but can´t be beaten with ♠Qx onside for declarer and 2 side aces.


3♥-> -100
2♠-> -110
2NT -> -300
2♠X -> -670

[Mbodell]

Put me in the camp of X is penalty and 2nt is scrambling.

If you have 12-14 or 13-15 and spades stopped and partner has his bid then we've got decent chances to set him.

[mike777]

I noted Lawrence and many experts play x as penalty but many on bbo play it as t/o so not sure there is an expert standard......


no one has explained what it is in BWS yet.

[aguahombre]

Mbodell, on 2012-January-08, 00:12, said:

Put me in the camp of X is penalty and 2nt is scrambling.

If you have 12-14 or 13-15 and spades stopped and partner has his bid then we've got decent chances to set him.

Just to clear my confusion, would:

KTX
QX
AJXX
QJ9X

fall within what you said? Or would we need one less minor suit card and one more spade to fit your "penalty" definition?

The OP hand feels like a 2NT bid; but unlike some "scrambles" it shows tolerance for hearts and strength.

[Free]

I would Dbl for takeout, it's imo much more frequent to have a takeout hand (because you don't have ♥ you couldn't Dbl the previous round) than a penalty Dbl behind a 6-card suit.

[aguahombre]

Yes, but even though your frequency estimate is correct, u still could have 2NT for a scramble with good cards, not 5-5 minors. Don't need to lose the penalty just because it is rare.

[FrancesHinden]

I also think 2NT is natural, but it shows spades (well) stopped. On this hand I would double. I've got 2S to show a heart raise.