[gnasher]

WellSpyder, on 2012-January-04, 10:13, said:

Maybe bidding questions need to specify the country you are playing in, not just rulings questions! It may seem mad to most of you, but you are not allowed to open this hand with a Precision 1♣ in almost all competitions in England since it doesn't have 16 points, and neither does it satisfy the rule of 25, ie HCPs plus length of longest 2 suits.

What does this bit mean then?

Quote

Allowed at Level 4 only
11 C 13 Either/or [Two-way] Club
A 1♣ opening may be played as both of:
(a) Any meaning as long as this does not include unbalanced hands with 5+ Hearts or 5+ Spades (unless there is a minor suit of equal length or longer).
together with
(b) Strong: any combination of meanings which promises a minimum of 'Extended Rule of 25' (see 10 B 4).

Edit: I realise that this means you can't agree to open 1♣ on AKQJxx xx Qxx Kx, but there is a difference: with a major or diamonds you can bid 1x-1y;3x, but with clubs you're stuck with opening 2♣ and hoping partner acts.

This post has been edited by gnasher: 2012-January-04, 13:12

[bluecalm]

So you can't play polish club in England ?

[Vampyr]

bluecalm, on 2012-January-04, 13:28, said:

So you can't play polish club in England ?

In what way does Polish Club fail (a) or (b) above?

[bluecalm]

It contains 12-14balanced hand as well as any hand with 18+hcp (also 15+hcp with clubs).
It seems it doesn't qualify for b) as it's not always strong and it doesn't qualify for a) as it could contain hand with 5card major.

[Vampyr]

bluecalm, on 2012-January-04, 14:16, said:

It contains 12-14balanced hand as well as any hand with 18+hcp (also 15+hcp with clubs).
It seems it doesn't qualify for b) as it's not always strong and it doesn't qualify for a) as it could contain hand with 5card major.

I am pretty sure that "both of" does not mean both at the same time.

[bluecalm]

In that case I could play 1C as:
1)16+ any
2)15+ or equivalent with clubs or diamonds

Is that correct ?

[gnasher]

bluecalm, on 2012-January-04, 14:52, said:

In that case I could play 1C as:
1)16+ any
2)15+ or equivalent with clubs or diamonds

Is that correct ?

Yes.

[Statto]

awm, on 2012-January-04, 09:58, said:

But the 2c opening explicitly shows 6+c and 11-15, so you can't go and upgrade out of that range primarily because of the sixth club...

I can upgrade later - if P attempts to sign off in 2♥, I can raise to 4♥. Probably not at MPs (but then I'd have opened 1NT), but red at teams wild horses wouldn't stop me.

The OP said it's 6+, but I play it as 6+ or 5+ with a 4 card major, which a 2♦ enquiry would discover. Maybe that makes a difference, or maybe it's totally irrelevant.

mike gill, on 2012-January-04, 10:30, said:

Surely nobody would argue for opening 2c on, say, xx xx AKx AKJTxx just because you have 10-15 HCP and 6 clubs, right?

I was thinking of almost exactly that hand (my AKx was in a major) as one where I'd definitely upgrade, as it has much greater playing strength. Maybe I'm in the dark ages but our range for 2♣ is 11-15 (not 10-15).

[Free]

I prefer 2♣ (= systemic bid), 1NT is my second choice. I don't like 1♣ at all, there are many 8-counts where we'd go down in 3NT... Opening 1♣ on this hand is imo a sign of lacking experience with strong ♣ systems.

[mikestar13]

1♣ for me (given 16+ nominal minimum), but it's close. I deem it a no-brainer to open 1♣=15+ and a ilttle too much of a stretch for 1♣=17+.