[Phil]

MPs r/W

76xxxx xx xxx xx

LHO 1H, 2C pard, 2H on your right.

LHO 4H, dbl, pass, ?

[Siegmund]

Hopefully partner has it beat.

If he doesn't, -590, -690, and -790 are all better than -800, which is likely the best you can hope for in 4S or 5C.

[MrAce]

Pass for me

Weird auction, pd has strong hand but did not start with DBL. Thus he doesnt have the shape for T/O dbl over 1♥.

3145 3235 3136 4135 etc etc he could have started DBL. Only thing that comes to my mind where bidding 4♠ can be good is if he has 6-4 blacks. But then again, with 6-4 blacks why didnt he start with DBL and if he is not strong enough to start with DBL what made him think he is strong enough to DBL now ?

I dont see the upside of bidding 4♠ with this 6232 junk tbh. Did he have 3037 or something ? (i assume he wld still start DBL with 4036 3046 hands )

[cherdano]

Partner's bidding is normal with 3136 and a hand that isn't quite strong enough to double-and-bid, but strong enough to still think it's our hand over 4♥. I would bid 4♠ and wouldn't be suprised about down one undoubled.

[the hog]

 cherdano, on 2011-December-31, 01:22, said:

Partner's bidding is normal with 3136 and a hand that isn't quite strong enough to double-and-bid, but strong enough to still think it's our hand over 4♥. I would bid 4♠ and wouldn't be suprised about down one undoubled.

A rare agreement with this poster. 4S is pretty clear.

[cherdano]

 the hog, on 2011-December-31, 01:53, said:

A rare agreement with this poster. 4S is pretty clear.

Actually I have agreed with most of your posts lately. Happy New Year!

[kgr]

4S
Edit: I've seen now that it is MP's R/w. That makes me doubt...still 4S.

[gnasher]

4♠. I'm not going to defend a 10-card heart fit when we have a 9-card spade fit. Even if it's wrong, they may bid 5♥.

[the hog]

 cherdano, on 2011-December-31, 02:27, said:

Actually I have agreed with most of your posts lately. Happy New Year!

Same too you. May 2012 bring you what you desire and hopefully may the Mayan calendar prove to be incorrect.

[Fluffy]

its a double fit hand, I wouldn´t think about passing.

[whereagles]

certainly 4S... I can hardly believe pard can set this on his own.

[MrAce]

 cherdano, on 2011-December-31, 01:22, said:

Partner's bidding is normal with 3136 and a hand that isn't quite strong enough to double-and-bid, but strong enough to still think it's our hand over 4♥. I would bid 4♠ and wouldn't be suprised about down one undoubled.

I would be quite surprised when their side have 24+ hcp ( u said pd didnt have enough to start DBL first),and voluntarily bid game and NOT double our 4♠ at these colors and MP.

This alone makes bidding 4♠ an awful decision in terms of possible outcomes imo, though since passing is obvious to me, you will probably win this board, or it would not be posted in "interesting hands" forum.

There are more to be said of course, i thought about 3136 shape too b4 my first reply, i just could not construct a hand that is NOT good enough to start double, but good enough to force me to bid at 4 or 5 level red vs white and MP scoring. After all i dont have to have a 6 card suit. I may as well be 4342 3442 3352 3451 etc etc... Now of course we would pass with all these hands, BUT this covers only our side of the story, what about pd's double ? How is he planning to defeat them with 3136 hand and not enough strength to start DBL at the first place ? This is why i thought this was a weird auction.

Sometimes DBL to a game contract means "i will defeat them" I would not be surprised to see pd holding

x AQT Axx AJxxxx

 Fluffy, on 2011-December-31, 05:49, said:

its a double fit hand, I wouldn´t think about passing.

This is a typical "Panic" logic. OMG they bid 4♥, so they must have 10 card fit, we have double fit!! How about they bid 4♥ because they have an 8 card ♥ fit+ 25 hcp + single in pd's suit ? I dont mind you bidding 4♠, i just can not understand the comment "i wouldn't think of passing"

I would agree with all of you if the auction was

1♥-2♣- 4 ♥- pass
pass- DBL- pass- ?

The one we have is quite different than this imo.

[rogerclee]

I understand not blindly bidding 4S over 4H, but we have six spades lol.

[JLOGIC]

Not bidding 4S is from another planet to me.

[ahydra]

Why not pass? Partner has made a penalty X. Would rather not go for -800 instead of +100.

ahydra

[MrAce]

 ahydra, on 2011-December-31, 16:48, said:

Why not pass? Partner has made a penalty X. Would rather not go for -800 instead of +100.

ahydra

If they believed it was a penalty DBL they wld all pass, disagreement is about the meaning of pd's DBL now, they believe it is T/O. If i knew it was pure take out i would bid 4♠ too, because take out makes them have 10+ ♥ and us 9+♠ combined with the advantages of declaring vs defending from 1 hand.

[cherdano]

 MrAce, on 2011-December-31, 13:59, said:

I would be quite surprised when their side have 24+ hcp ( u said pd didnt have enough to start DBL first),and voluntarily bid game and NOT double our 4♠ at these colors and MP.

If you have 17 hcp and 3136, which of the following auctions would you prefer:
1. (1H) X (4H) P (P) ???#$!!???
2. (1H) 2C (4H) P (P) X

[MrAce]

 cherdano, on 2011-December-31, 17:19, said:

If you have 17 hcp and 3136, which of the following auctions would you prefer:
1. (1H) X (4H) P (P) ???#$!!???
2. (1H) 2C (4H) P (P) X

Auto DBL to me over 1♥

[rogerclee]

 MrAce, on 2011-December-31, 17:35, said:

Auto DBL to me over 1♥

MrAce, nobody can stop you from having a nonstandard (and clearly inferior IMO) view of an auction, but many people have been quite clear that in standard bridge, partner is likely to have a strong 3136 or something similar.

There is a big difference between thinking what a double should be on an auction and bidding as if everyone thinks it is that way. If your only point is that we should pass a penalty double of 4H with this hand, then I think everyone agrees with you.

[MrAce]

 rogerclee, on 2011-December-31, 17:50, said:

MrAce, nobody can stop you from having a nonstandard (and clearly inferior IMO) view of an auction, but many people have been quite clear that in standard bridge, partner is likely to have a strong 3136 or something similar.

There is a big difference between thinking what a double should be on an auction and bidding as if everyone thinks it is that way. If your only point is that we should pass a penalty double of 4H with this hand, then I think everyone agrees with you.

I think that was covered in previous post I thought i was clear when i said i would also bid 4♠ had i believed this DBL shd be pure take out.

 MrAce, on 2011-December-31, 16:57, said:

If they believed it was a penalty DBL they wld all pass, disagreement is about the meaning of pd's DBL now, they believe it is T/O. If i knew it was pure take out i would bid 4♠ too, because take out makes them have 10+ ♥ and us 9+♠ combined with the advantages of declaring vs defending from 1 hand.

EDIT : Roger on that specific auction 1♥-?-4♥-p-p ? of course i would prefer to start with 2♣. But to me there are other priorities when deciding what to start. If you are telling me that a 17 hcp 3136 hand starting DBL is way too non standart then i must be an odd one I doubt that it is clear 2♣ bid for everyone although i repeat i definetely want to start 2♣ if i knew auction will proceed exactly as Arend said.