[kgr]

(3C)-?
We play transfers over (3C)-?

Do you think it is bad/good to play the same in balancing?:
(3C)-P-(P)-?

Remark:
We play a system of a good pair at our club and they say:
"In balancing Natural because partner already passed and transfer would orient to wrong hand."
...but I don't understand these points.

In direct:
DBL=TO
3D=xfer H
3H=xfer S
3S=xfer 3NT
3NT=To play
4C=H&S
4D=Natural
4H/4S=Nat constructive

[straube]

Transfers only in direct seat makes sense to me. The opening lead is likely to be a club and you want the hand that preempted to lead away from his suit.

The same principle is one reason why thrump doubles may be a good convention. 1D (3C) X denies a stopper and asks opener to rebid 3N if he has one. The 3C bidder has the opening lead.

[bluecalm]

Quote

Transfers only in direct seat makes sense to me. The opening lead is likely to be a club and you want the hand that preempted to lead away from his suit.

I agree. Still I am not 100% sure the transfers are bad idea. Lead directing is one thing, being able to comfortably bid major suited hands or ask for stopper with strong diamonds by 3♠ seems nice. Needs testing (aka going through simulated hands and assessing what comes up more often).

[rogerclee]

I don't get giving up a natural 3D bid in order to usually wrongside the contract.

[dake50]

In passout,
Dbl = willing to quit 3M/3D.
3D = both Majors
3H = S+D
3S = H=D
when more than a partial if partner has his 8.

[benlessard]

If you want to give up the natural 3D might as well play Fishbein (X is penalty cheapest new suit is takeout) or even better FiLo( X is penalty-ish, cheaper minor is takeout).

(3C)---???

X = almost penalty
3D takeout (forcing but not GF)
3M natural
3NT diamonds with a C stopper,
------------------------
IMO Filo work well over 3C,3H,3S,4C but not over 3D

over 3D, using 4C as takeout (NF or GF) is annoying. The other solution is giving up a natural 3H (to use as cheapest suit takeout) wich is IMO too costly.

IMO this is much much better than transfers scheme

[Zelandakh]

The "modern" version of Fishbein is usually given as FILM (Fishbein incorporating Lower Minor). This gets round the 3D problem by using 2 take-out bids, 3H = take-out with 4+ hearts and 4C = take-out without 4 hearts. I played this for a little while as a junior. Most players (myself included) do not believe this is worth it.

[benlessard]

Zelandakh, on 2011-December-31, 04:04, said:

The "modern" version of Fishbein is usually given as FILM (Fishbein incorporating Lower Minor). This gets round the 3D problem by using 2 take-out bids, 3H = take-out with 4+ hearts and 4C = take-out without 4 hearts. I played this for a little while as a junior. Most players (myself included) do not believe this is worth it.

Never heard of it. Losing, 3H natural over 3D is costlier than losing a natural 3D over 3C. Also when you play 3H as takeout may or may not have 4H at least you have 4C as NLM or as showing H but with a S tolerance. IMO the best solution is just to turn Fishbein/Filo off over "3D".