[kfay]

---

♥7, A, 2, 3
♦3, J, A, 4
♦10, 5, Q, ♥4

Go ahead.

[nige1]

KFay asks
♥7, A, 2, 3
♦3, J, A, 4
♦10, 5, Q, ♥4"

A. Now concede a ♠, ruff the ♠ return, and cash all but one of your trumps, discarding two clubs, hoping to trump squeeze RHO without the count if his shape is 3613 with ♣KQx. (If RHO is 3514,. then LHO can win the ♠ and lead a ♥ to break up the squeeze).

B. You might start differently. Win ♥A, concede ♠. Win ♥ return (say),
If no ♥ honour has appeared, then ruff ♠ with ♦T.Cross to dummy with ♦9 to ♦Q.
When ♦J appears, ruff ♥ with ♦A,. Cash ♣A,. Cross to dummy with ♦6 to ♦7, ruff ♥ with ♦K, exit in ♣. Hoping that RHO is 3514 with one ♣ honour. eg ♠ AKJ ♥QJxxx ♦J ♣KTxx
But if LHO has unblocked his ♣ honour then you can cross to dummy with ♦2 to ♦3 and lead a ♣.

---

[AlexJonson]

I'll exit a spade, playing West to be 6124 with KQxx clubs.

Whoever wins the spade has to return a spade, ruffed.

Heart to the Ace and heart ruff.

Jack of clubs, covered, Ace, eliminate hearts.

Exit with a club. Either East is thrown in to concede a ruff and discard, or West has to play his remaining club honour.

[gszes]

consistent with the bidding it is difficult to imagine too
many distributions and splits of hcp that will alow us to
make. I would give up on playing rho for long clubs
playing rho for generally 4612 the only question is
should we go for AlexJohnson concept of lho holding
KQxx or should we aim for the lower % rho holding
KT or QT or (almost impossible to guess) KQ.

IMO trick 2 we play a dia to hand and a dia to dummy then
lead a spade off dummy and see what rho does. If they
make a play that shows lots of spade power I would take
AlexJohnson LOP but if they show limited spade power
(surely lho did not start with spade AK and lead a heart)
then I would be much more inclined to play rho for HONOR T
in clubs.

After the spade and spade return if we are going to play rho for honor T
in clubs we go to dummy with a heart or a trump (it matters not which)
and lead a low club from dummy. If rho plays the K we win next play and
come to our hand and lead the club J hoping to pin the T and making the club 9
our 11th trick (hoping of course rho did not play K from KQ).
If rho plays the T we cover and play the ace second round of clubs and hope to see
the other top club honor drop once again making the 9 our 11th trick.

If rho plays the Q (and looks or has been playing really innocent (not in this group)
then maybe we can consider playing rho for KQ tight.

[nige1]

AlexJonson, on 2011-December-06, 01:48, said:

I'll exit a spade, playing West to be 6124 with KQxx clubs. Whoever wins the spade has to return a spade, ruffed. Heart to the Ace and heart ruff. Jack of clubs, covered, Ace, eliminate hearts. Exit with a club. Either East is thrown in to concede a ruff and discard, or West has to play his remaining club honour.

C. Alex's line seems reasonable.

gszes, on 2011-December-06, 17:26, said:

Consistent with the bidding it is difficult to imagine too many distributions and splits of hcp that will alow us to make. I would give up on playing rho for long clubs playing rho for generally 4612 the only question is should we go for AlexJohnson concept of lho holding KQxx or should we aim for the lower % rho holding KT or QT or (almost impossible to guess) KQ.

IMO trick 2 we play a dia to hand and a dia to dummy then lead a spade off dummy and see what rho does. If they make a play that shows lots of spade power I would take AlexJohnson LOP but if they show limited spade power (surely lho did not start with spade AK and lead a heart) then I would be much more inclined to play rho for HONOR T in clubs.

After the spade and spade return if we are going to play rho for honor T in clubs we go to dummy with a heart or a trump (it matters not which) and lead a low club from dummy. If rho plays the K we win next play and come to our hand and lead the club J hoping to pin the T and making the club 9 our 11th trick (hoping of course rho did not play K from KQ). If rho plays the T we cover and play the ace second round of clubs and hope to see the other top club honor drop once again making the 9 our 11th trick.

If rho plays the Q (and looks or has been playing really innocent (not in this group) then maybe we can consider playing rho for KQ tight.

D. I also agree that it is sensible to play RHO for 4612 shape with ♣KT or ♣QT or ♣KQ doubleton
Win ♥A, ♦A, ♦Q and exit in ♠. Ruff the ♠ return, cross to ♥K, ruff a ♥, cross to ♣A, ruff a ♥, and exit in ♣ (no guess needed).
Also works if RHO has ♣Kx or ♣Qx but fails to unblock

[gnasher]

nige1, on 2011-December-06, 20:05, said:

Also works if RHO has ♣Kx or ♣Qx but fails to unblock

True, though it requires two misdefences: if that's the layout West should have switched to a club after the second spade.

[nige1]

Good problem, KFay! Summary of attempts, so far...
A. RHO is 3613: After ♥A, ♦A, ♦Q, concede a ♠, ruff the ♠ return, and cash all but one of your trumps, discarding two clubs, hoping to trump squeeze RHO without the count if his shape is 3613 with ♣KQx. (If RHO is 3514,. then LHO can win the ♠ and lead a ♥ to break up the squeeze).
B. RHO is 3514 with ♣K or ♣Q.. eg ♠ AKJ ♥QJxxx ♦J ♣KTxx You might start differently. Win ♥A, concede ♠. Win ♥ return (say), If no ♥ honour has appeared, then ruff ♠ with ♦T.Cross to dummy with ♦9 to ♦Q. When ♦J appears, ruff ♥ with ♦A,. Cash ♣A,. Cross to dummy with ♦6 to ♦7, ruff ♥ with ♦K, exit in ♣. But if LHO has unblocked his ♣ honour then you can cross to dummy with ♦2 to ♦3 and lead a ♣.
C. RHO is 4612 with ♣Tx: AlexJohson's line works: ♥A, ♦A, ♦Q, concede a ♠, ruff the ♠ return, ♥K, ruff a ♥, lead ♣J covered by ♣Q and ♣A., ruff a ♥ And exit in ♣
D. RHO is 4612 with ♣KT or ♣QT or ♣KQ doubleton: ♥A, ♦A, ♦Q and exit in ♠. Ruff the ♠ return, cross to ♥K, ruff a ♥, cross to ♣A, ruff a ♥, and exit in ♣ (no guess needed). Also works if RHO has ♣Kx or ♣Qx but fails to unblock. As gnasher says, in that case, they could also have led a club earlier.
E. RHO is 5611, ♥A, ♦A, ♦Q and exit in ♠. If opps return a ♠ then ruff, cash ♥K, ruff a ♥, cash ♣A, exit in ♥. But If opponents return a ♣ then win ♣A, ruff a ♠ and finesse ♥.

---

[dave_w]

gnasher, on 2011-December-07, 03:36, said:

True, though it requires two misdefences: if that's the layout West should have switched to a club after the second spade.

Not switching to a club is hardly a misdefence:
1) With the ♠Ace RHO might have won the spade, thus making it impossible for LHO to switch to Clubs.
2) With KTxx in Clubs, it's a clear error for LHO to switch to Clubs - swap the ♣J and ♣Q in the two hands and a Club switch allows a contract home that would otherwise have gone off (declarer could make double dummy with that layout - but he's hardly going to).
And the only thing to gain from a Club switch - saving partner from misdefending (which I must say is a reasonable reason to do it - but not with these risks).

[dave_w]

nige1, on 2011-December-07, 06:25, said:

Good problem, KFay! Summary of attempts, so far...
A. RHO is 3613 ...
B. RHO is 3514 with ♣K or ♣Q ...
C. RHO is 4612 with ♣Tx: ...
D. RHO is 4612 with ♣KT or ♣QT or ♣KQ doubleton (or ♣Kx, ♣Qx and fails to unblock): ...
E. RHO is 5611, ...

---

Line E is the worst. Playing for RHO to be not-vul vs vul with a 5611 and no defence (QJ in Hearts and no guarantee a Spade is cashing). I'd put the odds of this working at close to 0%.
Line D also gets home where line B does - whereas the same is not true (line B can suffer a ruff). So line B isn't best.
Line C picks up 3 doubletons, Line D (with a little variation ***) picks up 12 doubletons + if they midefend. So I'd say line D is better than line C (it's winning so far).
And line A picks up 4 of the 20 3-3 breaks, as opposed to 14 of the 30 4-2 breaks. And given that they can break up the squeeze when RHO is 4513, it must be worse than that.

Line D is the winner: [h]A, [d]A, [d]Q and exit in [s]. Ruff the [s] return, cross to [h]K, ruff a [h], cross to [c]A, ruff a [h], and exit in [c] (no guess needed).

*** Line D (modified): when crossing to the [C]A if LHO plays an honour then lead up to the Jack of Clubs - either LHO has Hx and unblocked or he'll win this trick and (hopefully) have no more Clubs to play.

[nige1]

dave_w, on 2011-December-08, 03:53, said:

Line E is the worst. Playing for RHO to be not-vul vs vul with a 5611 and no defence (QJ in Hearts and no guarantee a Spade is cashing). I'd put the odds of this working at close to 0%.
Line D also gets home where line B does - whereas the same is not true (line B can suffer a ruff). So line B isn't best.
Line C picks up 3 doubletons, Line D (with a little variation ***) picks up 12 doubletons + if they midefend. So I'd say line D is better than line C (it's winning so far).
And line A picks up 4 of the 20 3-3 breaks, as opposed to 14 of the 30 4-2 breaks. And given that they can break up the squeeze when RHO is 4513, it must be worse than that.

Line D is the winner: [h]A, [d]A, [d]Q and exit in [s]. Ruff the [s] return, cross to [h]K, ruff a [h], cross to [c]A, ruff a [h], and exit in [c] (no guess needed).

*** Line D (modified): when crossing to the [C]A if LHO plays an honour then lead up to the Jack of Clubs - either LHO has Hx and unblocked or he'll win this trick and (hopefully) have no more Clubs to play.

I think Dave_W is right. For example if RHO is 3514 with ♣K or ♣Q, on superficial inspection, LHO seems to be able to create a problem for declarer by winning the ♠ exit and returning a ♥. However declarer can ruff a ♠ and continue as Dave_W suggests, because, If LHO wins the ♣, he will have no ♥ to play

[phil_20686]

I got a new one. Just cash 7 rounds of diamonds now. Suppose LHO is 6-2-2-3 and rho is 4-5-1-3, which seems much the most likely on the bidding given their limited values.

You are cold whenever rho has the KQ of clubs?

EDIT, also, after 6 rounds of diamonds you would expect to know for sure whether rho is 4-6-1-2 or 4-5-1-3. If he is the former you can play AK ruff a heart and exit with a spade probably - LHO would have to find 6 discards from

HHxxxx
x
jx
Kxxx

Would be pretty easy for him to let go 5 spades and a club, rather than 4 spade and two clubs,, so good chance to make when rho has HT club anyway.

[kfay]

Phil's line, or line D, also succeeds when RHO is 4513 with ♣H10x, though it's very difficult to see.

This was, in fact, the layout at the table:

---

After winning the heart, in order to make the hand declarer must peel off a lot of diamonds; no other line will succeed. If East ever lets go a club, declarer can maneuver to play a club off dummy and later pin the ♣10 (sure, not clear). If he lets go 2 hearts, declarer can set up a long heart. So East must part with spades. After the last diamond has been played
East has been reduced to ♠- ♥QJx ♦- ♣K10.

Declarer plays a club towards the A9. If lefty hops with an honor then declarer wins the ace and endplays East. If lefty plays low, then dummy does as well and East will be endplayed again.

Anyway, I thought it was a neat hand. I certainly didn't play off 7 diamonds though

[phil_20686]

kfay, on 2011-December-08, 11:57, said:

Phil's line, or line D, also succeeds when RHO is 4513 with ♣H10x, though it's very difficult to see.

This was, in fact, the layout at the table:

---

After winning the heart, in order to make the hand declarer must peel off a lot of diamonds; no other line will succeed. If East ever lets go a club, declarer can maneuver to play a club off dummy and later pin the ♣10 (sure, not clear). If he lets go 2 hearts, declarer can set up a long heart. So East must part with spades. After the last diamond has been played
East has been reduced to ♠- ♥QJx ♦- ♣K10.

Declarer plays a club towards the A9. If lefty hops with an honor then declarer wins the ace and endplays East. If lefty plays low, then dummy does as well and East will be endplayed again.

Anyway, I thought it was a neat hand. I certainly didn't play off 7 diamonds though

It is pretty, not sure I would have been wise enough to keep 3 hearts though.

[nige1]

Thank you Kfay, beautiful hand!

[gszes]

phil_20686, on 2011-December-08, 18:35, said:

It is pretty, not sure I would have been wise enough to keep 3 hearts though.

I have been going blind trying to figure out how this works sigh since
E discards after N I fail to see how the proposed LOP works.


if dummy keeps void KT9 void A9 why in the world would E keep
void QJx void KT? they can see the endplay coming?? Why would
they not just keep say x QJX void K?? With no entries left to
the south hand the club suit is dead and no endplay is possible????

------------void
------------KT9
------------void
------------A9
A-------------------x
x-------------------QJx
void----------------void
Qxx-----------------K
------------x
------------x
------------void
------------J7x

at Mp where letting overtricks score can be a disaster
I can see E reducing to allow you to make 5 but at imps
no way they have to assume p has the club Q or there is
no defense.

Someone please let me know how my failing eyesight is betraying me
yet again

[phil_20686]

gszes, on 2011-December-12, 08:56, said:

Someone please let me know how my failing eyesight is betraying me
yet again

On the layout you gave a club to the ace and the 9 of clubs ducked establishes the J of clubs in hand. He will score two clubs one heart and one spade for the required 4 tricks. Your defence would be successful if west held the club ten.

[gszes]

phil_20686, on 2011-December-12, 09:04, said:

On the layout you gave a club to the ace and the 9 of clubs ducked establishes the J of clubs in hand. He will score two clubs one heart and one spade for the required 4 tricks. Your defence would be successful if west held the club ten.

While a club to the A and another club will indeed establish a club trick in declarers hand there is no way to get back to declarers hand to cash it. lho wins the second club and cashes their spade trick then leads a heart

If declarer leads a club and ducks it rho wins the K leads a spade
to their p and their p can exit with either a club or a heart to set contract.

in fact, there is no reason lho even needs to hold a heart they can
hold two spades and Qxx clubs and there is even less hope or using the same logic
that his p needed to hold club K for defense to have a shot
lho can reduce to three spades and Qx of clubs.

[gnasher]

This is the position with East still to discard on the penultimate trump:

---

If East throws a club, we cross to HK and lead a club from dummy. We still have a trump entry to lead ♣J through West.

Therefore East has to throw his last spade on this trick, so he won't have one later in the play.

[phil_20686]

gnasher, on 2011-December-12, 16:20, said:

This is the position with East still to discard on the penultimate trump:

---

If East throws a club, we cross to HK and lead a club from dummy. We still have a trump entry to lead ♣J through West.

Therefore East has to throw his last spade on this trick, so he won't have one later in the play.

When I came back to this hand and looked at gzse, i somehow thought spades were trumps in the position he drew. Thanks for correcting it.

WD in gold cup.

[gszes]

gnasher, on 2011-December-12, 16:20, said:

This is the position with East still to discard on the penultimate trump:

---

If East throws a club, we cross to HK and lead a club from dummy. We still have a trump entry to lead ♣J through West.

Therefore East has to throw his last spade on this trick, so he won't have one later in the play.

TY